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Discussion Topic: Dapper Dan
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 20, 2013
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"i question it, and have for a long time-- my credentials co-director of Reno T of C in 90s and Ironman the past 13 years, did high school team & indiv rankings for AWN for nearly 20 years.
ive always said in high school, Ohio EVEN with PA--in high school-- but no one listened, drowned out by PA's phenomenal college stature which has muddied the high school picture.
However for college PA's tradition, number of div 1 colleges, and on-top expertise enable PA to clearly dominate the college scene-- although ohio is pretty good, 32 NCAA quals alot more than anyone else except PA.
If ohio hadn't cut half of its div 1 college programs -- -- -- --. ..s/BobP"
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I think you're correct for top end talent that it's even, but not sure on depth (which is why most consider PA better. Maybe how they are allowed by to actually have mat wrestling skews it in my mind because of the dominance (qualifiers, AA's, etc) shown @ college level -- but last point made is noted. I also stand corrected in my "nobody questions" comment. Even would still make them first (even if it's a tie).
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Discussion Topic: Dapper Dan
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 20, 2013
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[quote="Brady Hiatt"]
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"I think you're correct for top end talent that it's even, but not sure on depth (which is why most consider PA better. Maybe how they are allowed by to actually have mat wrestling skews it in my mind because of the dominance (qualifiers, AA's, etc) shown @ college level -- but last point made is noted. I also stand corrected in my "nobody questions" comment. Even would still make them first (even if it's a tie)."
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yes PA on top ability fostered by refs that allow more on-top than Ohio, that helps PA in college. PA RULES college.
however i'm talking high school-- re "PA depth superiority" over Ohio its a MYTH, PA has it yes but so does Ohio. People just repeat this myth because its been said so often.
ive seen many of PAs best teams up close & personal-- after all we seek to bring them in every year at Ironman--- i seed them, i watch them, i know the results. PA aint coming in here and dominating, not at all. Ohio kids perform at or above their seed at least as much as PA does. Ironman is a legitmate test tube.
when Ohio use to go to NHSCA Seniors, Ohio dominated when that was still the elite individual folkstyle tourn in America, when it was in Pittsburgh and then Cleveland --before it got watered down as it is today. Did u ever go back then, did u see how so many Ohio kids would make AA in bunches, ohio kids u wouldnt think would be able?
Depth no problem in Ohio. Lack of div 1 colleges IS a problem in ohio. ...s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: Dapper Dan
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 20, 2013
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What's tough about this argument is having an objective standard. Would PA kids do as well vs OH kids if reffed in OH? How would OH kids do when reffed in PA?
How do the non-state placers (but are qualifiers) in PA compare to their counterparts in OH? Style of wrestling has alot to do with how matches are officiated. Only "common" ground is college.
I wasn't in OH for many years before the HS Nationals were moved so I never did make it up there. What do numbers out of Fargo look like?
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Discussion Topic: Dapper Dan
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 20, 2013
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"I wasn't in OH for many years before the HS Nationals were moved so I never did make it up there. "
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from your words somehow that doesnt surprise me. i kinda expected that.
Fargo, in the era when the best ohio kids went, ohio did as well as anyone in the 2 freestyle events. Its all about who u bring. When our top hs coaches put together our Fargo freestyle teams, those teams kicked serious azz. Same when Eric Burnett & Todd Haverdill put together Jr Duals teams.
Greco weve always been a bit shaky except when our top kids "doubled". ohio not a real good Greco state, but freestyle very good.
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Discussion Topic: Dapper Dan
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 20, 2013
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I've been in OH for much less time than most posters here but do have experience to critique wrestling. Know many at college ranks that believe PA has more depth AND produces kids more college ready than any other state. NCAA Q's and AA's is a powerful argument for PA. The number of Q's they produce that go to out of state colleges alone is amazing.
That being said, PA isn't as far ahead as they'd like to believe either.
AVG Fargo production (avg record of all states entrants in FS) would also be an interesting stat to look at over the past 10-15 yrs.
IMHO, OH needs to consistently send their best to these Nat'l events AND produce better in college to even up on a collective national perspective.
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