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Discussion Topic: new FR & Greco proposed rules
Harry Lester added to this discussion on May 29, 2013
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I get so disgusted at reading posts about dropping any style of wrestling and ignorant people posting about international styles when they have no idea what is really going on. It seems to me that people that posts about dropping a style have the same mindset as the members of the IOC that voted to drop all styles. I as a wrestler and lover of the sport would not compromise on dropping a style to save the others be side I understand each style and have become a student and a fan of each. Shame on each person that has suggested dropping/compromising!
I really have lost a lot of respect for some on the American forums especially some on this forum! Some people will say because I'm a Greco guy, well need to some I could switch styles and make the freestyle team. I love every style because when it comes down to it, wrestling is wrestling. Deny one deny all! Some of you are so far removed it's ridiculous. I hate to come off so pissed but until we stick together we will not accomplish the ultimate goal. So I say to you people constantly doubting the rules, calling for a axe on styles, and questioning every step of movement, get with it and be supportive instead of negative.
I have no doubt our sport will be in the Olympics. I have no choice but to believe it! I love it to much to have any negative thoughts about any of it!
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Discussion Topic: new FR & Greco proposed rules
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on May 30, 2013
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Thank you for chiming in Harry and sharing a voice of reason! I'm not sure there is a forum out there a true competitor can tolerate. Fans are pretty silly with their opinions and lack of true experience. It's always great to have the opinions of guys like you and Rex to share some reality.
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Discussion Topic: new FR & Greco proposed rules
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 30, 2013
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God bless you, Harry! I love the passion.
I am renewed in my resolve to #KeepOlympicWrestling . After all, #ToWrestleIsToBeHuman .
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Discussion Topic: new FR & Greco proposed rules
Christian Pyles added to this discussion on May 30, 2013
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I love and understand this sport fairly well and give plenty to ensure its promotion and growth. My opinion is that greco, while it reinforces many key skills(position, hand fighting, controlling the mat) in wrestling doesn't interest wrestling fans. If you can't appeal to the rabid fanbase that wrestling has, how can you possibly expect to appeal to people who only casually follow the sport and in turn, grow the sport? The Gardner v. Karelin is one of the most historic matches in Greco's history and couldn't be more boring and difficult to understand. A niche rule from a niche sport within a niche sport prevents Karelin from perfection? No thanks.
Pretty sure Hank and I aren't the only one with these thoughts about Greco.
Check out the 6th question and response. I'm not always aligned with Foley and his thoughts, but I'm afraid I echo many of his sentiments.
http://www.intermatwrestle.com/articles/11739
If Greco can continue exist with no damage done to freestyle that's fine with me. If Greco needs to go to ensure freestyle and olympic promotion, then I wouldn't oppose that one bit.
This is nothing personal towards any greco wrestlers and I'm sure it would be tough to have a sport you love dragged through the mud by "fans."
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Discussion Topic: new FR & Greco proposed rules
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 30, 2013
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C-Py: I think what you are stating is what a good portion of the wrestling world is fighting against...
Who is it that should set the rules for wrestling? A (corrupt) committee or governing body or the wrestlers themselves?
Who are we as wrestlers? From what I can tell, we are folkstyle, freestyle, and Greco.
In principle, I would fight for the purity of the sport(s), which is to say, devoid of outside motives such as ad space on a TV spot. We are a Martial Art and straying from that to pander to whomever's greed is, IMO, not beneficial.
Now, "complaining' that wrestling is being removed from the Olympic Games, in my eyes, is fighting to keep the Olympics true to it's own initial vision. The IOC has forgot - or chooses not to associate - with it's main reason for existence in exchange for greed (of power, money, etc).
In the end, comprimising our sport to become whatever "they" want us to is the quickest way to oblivion.
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Discussion Topic: new FR & Greco proposed rules
Christian Pyles added to this discussion on May 30, 2013
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"C-Py: I think what you are stating is what a good portion of the wrestling world is fighting against...
Who is it that should set the rules for wrestling? A (corrupt) committee or governing body or the wrestlers themselves?
Who are we as wrestlers? From what I can tell, we are folkstyle, freestyle, and Greco.
In principle, I would fight for the purity of the sport(s), which is to say, devoid of outside motives such as ad space on a TV spot. We are a Martial Art and straying from that to pander to whomever's greed is, IMO, not beneficial.
Now, "complaining' that wrestling is being removed from the Olympic Games, in my eyes, is fighting to keep the Olympics true to it's own initial vision. The IOC has forgot - or chooses not to associate - with it's main reason for existence in exchange for greed (of power, money, etc).
In the end, comprimising our sport to become whatever "they" want us to is the quickest way to oblivion."
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Regarding the rules, I'm not sure of your point, but Greco is what it is. You can't attack legs, you don't see many neutral attacks, it's a lot of standing and waiting until Par Terre. I'm not going to blame FILA for greco being boring. Greco is boring because it's boring, not because of the rules.
If you think simply maintaining "purity" will help the sport on the whole, I'd disagree. Baseball has continued to maintain its purity to the detriment of its popularity. Football and basketball have adapted to create more a more entertaining and fan-friendly product. In turn, those sports are extremely popular.
As a sport, you don't want to cater to the "purists" you want to appeal to the masses. If you want to grow, that is..
I'm not sure what all of your points were, however and if I even addressed yours.
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Discussion Topic: new FR & Greco proposed rules
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 30, 2013
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My bad - I should have used a different word than rules given the fact that FILA likes to change them so much. I think a better word would be "agenda".
Who should set the agenda, or what wrestling should be, or what the viewing eye sees.
It seems like the IOC wants something appealing to viewers. And I think my point is that that stance is drastically different than why I view what the Olympics should be about.
Put a mat in my backyard, a balance beam in my garage, a pool - with diving platforms - in my extended back lot, and encompass it all with a track. Televise it or not, every four years, come together and let it all lay out in the form of competition... Not in the forms of ratings and ad revenue.
All in all, I do not think the IOC should be about the business of being a business. While just abou tany organization must receive funds to do what it does, there is no shame in staying true to who or what it should be, first and foremost.
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Discussion Topic: new FR & Greco proposed rules
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 30, 2013
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ps:
From the ancient walls of Samaria and from Hieroglyphics written on the tombs of Egyptian Kings, we know that wrestling is a sport of the ages. It touches the lives of all who participate in it and many times even those who just observe it.
Who can forget the emotional victory of Jeff Blatnick over cancer before his gold medal win in Los Angeles in 1984 or the heart rendering upset victory of Rulon Gardner over previously undefeated wrestling icon Alexander Karelin in Australia at the 2000 Olympics.
You can see the impact of the sport in the eyes of even its youngest combatants. Perhaps in apprehension of that very first one on one or that glorious twinkling elation that comes from the first victory over the vanquished foe.
And for those who stay the course for a career, their eyes reflect a passion that penetrates deep into their very soul, a look that impacts for a lifetime and yes a look that makes them what they are.
Here is an image that I want to leave with each of you tonight:
I am Wrestling! Do not weep for me!!
Weep for those who will never experience me.
Weep for those who will never feel the exhausting pain of my training,
Weep for those who will never sense the bond of camaraderie that once established, will never wane or die.
Weep for those who will never comprehend the demands of my discipline
And most of all, Weep for those poor souls who will never miss me, because they never knew me.
I am Wrestling! Do not weep for me!!
I have been experienced in virtually every culture and civilization known to mankind.
I have been contested in over 150 documented forms in written history.
There is no Nation on this planet that throughout all time, has not experienced me.
I am Wrestling! Do not weep for me!!
Look to those seated around you and think of the qualities that make them what they are:
Accountability, responsibility, persistence, fortitude, strength, compassion, work ethic, ingenuity, determination, integrity, honesty, focus, diligence, and resolve.
Wrestling is not the only place they could acquire these, but By God they all reside here!! And if you live with me long enough these will become you.
I am Wrestling! Do not weep for me!!
No political agenda or political interpretation can ever destroy me. My merit and my worth is no threat to any cause, but rather through my values, I am a model for others.
I am Wrestling! Do not weep for me!!
Celebrate what I am, celebrate what I have been, celebrate what I represent, and celebrate the many ways I have impacted your life. I will survive this test as I have survived others, I am forever etched into the very fiber of all mankind.
The world needs me.
Time is on my side.
History guarantees me!
I am Wrestling! Do Not weep for me!!
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Discussion Topic: new FR & Greco proposed rules
Christian Pyles added to this discussion on May 30, 2013
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"My bad - I should have used a different word than rules given the fact that FILA likes to change them so much. I think a better word would be "agenda".
Who should set the agenda, or what wrestling should be, or what the viewing eye sees.
It seems like the IOC wants something appealing to viewers. And I think my point is that that stance is drastically different than why I view what the Olympics should be about.
Put a mat in my backyard, a balance beam in my garage, a pool - with diving platforms - in my extended back lot, and encompass it all with a track. Televise it or not, every four years, come together and let it all lay out in the form of competition... Not in the forms of ratings and ad revenue.
All in all, I do not think the IOC should be about the business of being a business. While just abou tany organization must receive funds to do what it does, there is no shame in staying true to who or what it should be, first and foremost."
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I respect this, but find it a bit idealistic and a bit naive. Olympics is a business like the NFL, NBA, etc. That's not changing. May not be pure, but it's the reality and it's not changing.
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Discussion Topic: new FR & Greco proposed rules
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on May 30, 2013
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Quote from Patrick Campbell's post:
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"Fans are pretty silly with their opinions and lack of true experience. It's always great to have the opinions of guys like you (refering to Harry) and Rex to share some reality."
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imo, Fans too have Every Right to comment on the rules. Sure some opinions are dumb, however Fans invest a lot in a sport (or choose not to invest anything), their enthusiasm makes the sport popular & grows it--- that goes for every sport on the planet.
AND sometimes fans are actually right. It would BEHOOVE those in charge to listen to fans.
The freestyle ball-grab rules were intuitively a blow against fairness and common sense, why pretend otherwise???? Fans knew it too.
(an aside: i put BEHOOVE in for Harry and all ex-military on here-- i havent used or even heard that word used since i was in the Army almost 50 years ago! i bet they still use it. When it was directed at u, u knew it was a bad thing.)
....s/often behooved BobP
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Discussion Topic: new FR & Greco proposed rules
Christian Pyles added to this discussion on May 30, 2013
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Quote from Patrick Campbell's post:
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"Thank you for chiming in Harry and sharing a voice of reason! I'm not sure there is a forum out there a true competitor can tolerate. Fans are pretty silly with their opinions and lack of true experience. It's always great to have the opinions of guys like you and Rex to share some reality."
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The reality is greco is unpopular. That is not a silly opinion. Your demeaning of fans knowledge and the broad stroke youre painting is not accurate.
The "You aren't a high level wrestler, so you don't have knowledge or proper perspective" has always been a really dumb way to defend a point.
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Discussion Topic: new FR & Greco proposed rules
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on May 30, 2013
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Fans and you as well Bob, are entitled to their opinion. Just understand that those actually competing, coaching, or refereeing might not have the same view point or even find your points valid. And of course, Bob, sometimes fans do have valid points. But some of the stuff said on the forum at times is just downright silly in reference to competition.
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Discussion Topic: new FR & Greco proposed rules
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 30, 2013
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I'm going to find that stat of the US Open (maybe it was the US Open) that showed entry for each style. I'm 99.9% sure it was FS=300, GR=304.
I get that numbers aren't everything in terms of popularity, but it has to say something!
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Discussion Topic: new FR & Greco proposed rules
Christian Pyles added to this discussion on May 30, 2013
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"I'm going to find that stat of the US Open (maybe it was the US Open) that showed entry for each style. I'm 99.9% sure it was FS=300, GR=304.
I get that numbers aren't everything in terms of popularity, but it has to say something!"
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Tournament entries in no way correlate to overall interest/popularity.
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Discussion Topic: new FR & Greco proposed rules
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on May 30, 2013
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Quote from Patrick Campbell's post:
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"Fans and you as well Bob, are entitled to their opinion. Just understand that those actually competing, coaching, or refereeing might not have the same view point or even find your points valid."
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huh?? Patrick, thanks so much for granting fans & myself some rights, and thanks for the lecture about what we need to "just understand". --Are u in a position of authority where u speak to people this way?
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