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Discussion Topic: OSU vs. Minnesota (1/11)
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on January 12, 2013
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I a would assume you mean in dual meet format? I can can see that.
But I think when the dust settles in Des Moines, we will be in the top 5.
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Discussion Topic: OSU vs. Minnesota (1/11)
Doug Gainous added to this discussion on January 12, 2013
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Rankings don't mean that much to me...Bottom line, Bucks did't get it done at HOME last night.
2,800 fans last night at St. John? Not the "Carver-like" atmosphere we were hoping for. I only herd the place rockn' when Demas went to OT.
This team needs Logan back BAD!! He is the leader/identity of this team. I was hoping the other upperclassman would step up in his absence. Outside of Trigas...they didn't.
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Discussion Topic: OSU vs. Minnesota (1/11)
Pat Altvater added to this discussion on January 12, 2013
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Quote from Erik Nell's post:
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"
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Quote from Mark Cummings's post:
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"Ok I'll bite.
Over-rated? Really? Losing to 2 of the top 4 teams in the country in back-to-back weekends with your best wrestler out hardly qualifies as over-rated. As a fan I'm disappointed but this is the 5th best team in the country right now and that's where they are ranked."
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Yes Mark in my opinion as of today they are over-rated just like the Ohio State Basketball team was over-rated being 4th in the country. Just like a wrestler who was ranked 2nd in the country and I have not seen him put together a shot, re-shot scramble since his freshman year. Fact of the matter they are young and their monroville 3 are the biggest goers on the team, that does not make you 5th in the country."
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First of all Erik, I would love to see you walk into the OSU wrestling room and tell Tom and the boys that they are over-rated at #5. - Their reactions could be amusing!
Secondly, I couldn't disagree with you more. We have just lost to the #3 and #4 teams in the nation without our team leader, and national champion, Loagan Stieber. I don't see any team in the nation other than the top 4 teams in the nation that can come close on paper to stacking up to OSU - when they are healthy and in game full conditioning.
Thirdly,if they are over-rated at #5, who do you think should be elevated above them. OSU has already defeated #7 Missouri and #8 Cornell in a tournament, in which we probably lost 20 points because one of our #1 seeds had to default due to an injury during warm-ups. We also have beaten #10 Virginia Tech 23-10 in a dual on 11/16/12. I believe that we would dominate the upper classes against #9 Central Michigan, and even though I believe that we will beat #6 Illinois, we will wrestle them on 2/1/13 in Oak Harbor to determine that one.
Fourthly, in all sports, injuries and down-time greatly affect athletes performance at a given time. Personally, I don't think that we have seen the best performance by the OSU team yet this year. I believe that they are building, developing, and healing in getting ready for the apex of the season, which is the national duals in Feb., the Big 10 tourney, and the NCAA tourney. An example of this is:
125 - Nikko seemed to suffer from being away from NCAA competition for two years, but seems to be getting back into good form now.
133 - The team has really missed Logan the last two weeks. He's a great on the mat, and inspirational leader.
149 - Cam has faced tough competition and started slow, but seems to be rounding into form now, and is looking tough.
174 - I believe the injury layoff has really hurt his conditioning and match readiness, but he will get it back before next month. And, don't knock his defensive style, it had worked pretty well in earning him the #2 ranking in the nation.
Fifthly, you seemed to have a circular argument. You said that the team is too young, but then you mentioned the success of the Monroeville three. With the lineup that wrestled last night, the 'M'-three are probably the 3 youngest starters that we have. Everyone needs to step up and wrestle their best, and its not just a youth issue anymore.
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Discussion Topic: OSU vs. Minnesota (1/11)
Roe Fox added to this discussion on January 12, 2013
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From a dual standpoint right now they can't go with the top 4. That really isn't an earth-shaking comment.
LStieber is the straw that stirs the drink on this team, in my opinion. When he doesn't wrestle it is a six point swap before you start (minimum), if not twelve. It might be hard to beat the 6-10 teams with that handicap. Plus, he just seems to get everyone else fired up.
Though I don't think for a minute Ryan wants to lose duals -- and they better not lose to TSUN -- and he puts what he thinks is the best team available on the mat, he seems more concerned with the Big 10 and NCAA Championships than a few dual losses in January.
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Discussion Topic: OSU vs. Minnesota (1/11)
Alex Creech added to this discussion on January 12, 2013
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My thoughts :
Conditioning. Everyone but Demas, Capone, and Paddock seemed gassed at the end. I'm sure Ryan isn't letting these guys watch movies at practice, so what is it? I dunno, maybe too much weight cut? Maybe illness? (alot of that going around) Nutrition? Personal problems? There are so many things it could be, but not being in the room the only thing we can do is make the observation.
Weight room. I know there are different philosophies on this, and certain styles are better suited to lean and lanky, but every one of Minnesota's guys except maybe Ness seem like they live in the weight room. They aren't the only team, 2 others that stand out that tOSU has wrestled are Iowa and Pitt. Again, I'm sure Ryan doesn't have these guys lifting fruitcakes. I don't know what their philosophy is or practice habits are, just an observation.
Early offense. Actually, I think the bucks have done pretty good at this, even against Iowa and Minnesota. They seem to attack early and score first. But for whatever reason (maybe #1 above) it doesn't continue.
To paraprhase :
Now, I don't know much about anything, but I think some of American's best young men are on this team.
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Discussion Topic: OSU vs. Minnesota (1/11)
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on January 12, 2013
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Let's not jump Erik for being honest. Twenty guys all saying the same thing is boring. Good to see someone come on here that is not kissing butt. Further, his technical observations are very interesting and arguably accurate. I get where he's coming from.
I think that Minny has been overlooked a lot this year due to injuries and some slow starts. But last night, the Gophers showed that they have eight guys that can seriously challenge for AA honors and that's impressive. They looked well conditioned and they out-manuvered the Bucks in a bunch of bouts. They are head and shoulders better than Iowa and one of the three top teams in the nation--along with PSU and Okie State. Actually, I think they're second best and will show it in March.
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Discussion Topic: OSU vs. Minnesota (1/11)
Jeremy Park added to this discussion on January 12, 2013
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i agree not having logan wrestle does put us at a disadvantage. but come on, he is there right? with the team, in the room, at the duel. leadership quailties are available. i think thats a poor excuse. i think the team is good, but not great. 5th seems about right.
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Discussion Topic: OSU vs. Minnesota (1/11)
Alex Creech added to this discussion on January 12, 2013
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Let's not jump Erik for being honest. Twenty guys all saying the same thing is boring. Good to see someone come on here that is not kissing butt. Further, his technical observations are very interesting and arguably accurate. I get where he's coming from.
I think that Minny has been overlooked a lot this year due to injuries and some slow starts. But last night, the Gophers showed that they have eight guys that can seriously challenge for AA honors and that's impressive. They looked well conditioned and they out-manuvered the Bucks in a bunch of bouts. They are head and shoulders better than Iowa and one of the three top teams in the nation--along with PSU and Okie State. Actually, I think they're second best and will show it in March."
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I agree Hank. I think maybe the issue others have is what defines the top teams in D1 wrestling. If the top teams are PSU, OSU, and Minn then I agree. Otherwise, I think the Bucks can hang with, beat any other team.
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Discussion Topic: OSU vs. Minnesota (1/11)
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on January 12, 2013
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Quote from Jeremy Park's post:
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"i agree not having logan wrestle does put us at a disadvantage. but come on, he is there right? with the team, in the room, at the duel. leadership quailties are available. i think thats a poor excuse. i think the team is good, but not great. 5th seems about right."
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Agree.
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Discussion Topic: OSU vs. Minnesota (1/11)
Pat Altvater added to this discussion on January 12, 2013
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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Quote from Jeremy Park's post:
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"i agree not having logan wrestle does put us at a disadvantage. but come on, he is there right? with the team, in the room, at the duel. leadership quailties are available. i think thats a poor excuse. i think the team is good, but not great. 5th seems about right."
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Agree."
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If the point is that OSU didn't wrestle their best matches in the last week, I agree with that.
But the statement was made that OSU is over-rated at #5. That I do not agree with.
The top 5 teams (including OSU) are very strong and deep, but I think with the showing so far this year that OSU has shown some separation from the 6-10 teams.
I still do not believe that this OSU has come near to reaching it's peak. Hopefully we will see that in February and March.
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Discussion Topic: OSU vs. Minnesota (1/11)
Sean Koran added to this discussion on January 12, 2013
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OSU scored zero offensive points from 165-285 (Demas 1 escape; Heflin 1 reversal/1 escape; Magrum 1 optional start; Camp 1 reversal (nearly got ridden out); Capone 1 escape). That is not a formula for success.
Demas again wrestled well in a loss, this time up a weight class to a tough opponent, but he was never close to scoring.
Heflin had some nice defense in the first to avoid a Storley TD then the wheels fell off.
Magrum also held it scoreless through one then...
Camp was more aggressive in this match than against Burak, but it appeared that sloppiness prevented him getting at least one TD and some sloppy defense gave up a TD. He was in a nice shot at the end of the first as well but time ran out. It at least looked like the result of this match could have been reversed.
Capone did a nice job against the returning champ. I think shooting late in the third, while ultimately unsuccessful, was a good strategy, because its hard to imagine Pete winning in OT.
In addition to the lack of offense, the guys at 184 and 197 need to get better on the mat. At Iowa, Courts and Camp struggled mightily on bottom, and last night Magrum and Camp also had significant problems. They also put up virtually zero resistance while on top.
The good news is OSU has time to right the ship, as IU and UW should put up little resistance next weekend, then a bye week, followed by a good test with Illinois.
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Discussion Topic: OSU vs. Minnesota (1/11)
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on January 12, 2013
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Erik Nell has a right to say the team is overrated, if he thinks so, without being challenged to: "walk into the OSU wrestling room and tell Tom and the boys that they are over-rated at #5. - Their reactions could be amusing!"
fact is knowing Tom Ryan, he probably would agree- right now anyway. i myself thought they'd do much better vs MN. Erik's opinion is not out of line. ...s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: OSU vs. Minnesota (1/11)
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on January 12, 2013
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I'm not offended by the opinion that they are overrated. But they are not overrated. They are legit the 5th best team in the nation. In their current state, they cannot challenge for the National Title. With Logan, Hunter, and Cam alone, they have the ability to get 5th at nationals. Other guys will get wins and Heflin, Camp, Triggas, and Capone have realistic shots at AA status if they fix some stuff the next couple months.
What's fair to say is that they have looked bad in the last 2 dual meets and a couple of wrestlers (Heflin and Camp in particular) have been underwhelming to say the least. No excuse for it and even though they have AA potential....it won't happen if they continue to wrestle this way. Right now they are both falling back to realistic rankings. And the Buckeyes probably will drop in the team poll. But, don't kid yourself, they will finish 5th at nationals in March barring any major injuries to the big 3.
Last but not least...what we have seen the past 2 weeks is what is so great about B1G wrestling. It is TOUGH. If EVERYONE does not bring their "A" game...the team loses. And the fact is, Iowa, MN, and PSU are the best teams in the nation that are contending for the national title. Of course they will make any team pay when there is a major injury and if a couple other guys are having a tough stretch. A butt-kicking by Iowa and MN is evidence of just how tough the B1G is and and fantastic reflection of the B1G more than reflecting the Buckeyes are overrated. The Buckeyes certainly got a reality check and they needed it, but they have won every other meet they have wrestled this year. Ask Kent or Northwestern if they think the Buckeyes are overrated and you might get a different perspective. They just don't deserve to be top rated.
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Discussion Topic: OSU vs. Minnesota (1/11)
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on January 12, 2013
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"I still do not believe that this OSU has come near to reaching it's peak. Hopefully we will see that in February and March."
Pat: I hope you are correct. Traditionally, Coach Ryan has had his team at their best come March.
Sean Koran--great observations.
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Discussion Topic: OSU vs. Minnesota (1/11)
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on January 12, 2013
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something appears not right-- the last half of the lineup has only one weight class, the hvwt, that is wrestling well (unless Demas stays at 165".
Ryan & staff have changed the "culture"....But not enough.
ohio state is a # 5-7 program. Not an NCAA championship program- yet. ...s/BobP
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