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Discussion Topic: Student upset at how OSU handled sexual-assault case involving wrestler
Roe Fox added to this discussion on May 10, 2012
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"I try to stay away from topics like these because my knee-jerk reactions is to believe the female and honestly, until all the facts come out any judgement against either one of them is premature. If he did the things described, there is no punishment too harsh as far as I'm concerned. If he's being falsely accused, then she's spitting in the face of real victims of sexual assault and rape."
Absolutely agree with Michael on this.
Josh: I really don't think anyone is defending the bahavior. There simply is too much unknown.
For that reason and others, my point is if you are a boorish old hypocrite -- and a multiple offender where we have no other instance yet of poor conduct by this wrestler -- you shouldn't be telling parents what to do with their kid.
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Discussion Topic: Student upset at how OSU handled sexual-assault case involving wrestler
Roe Fox added to this discussion on May 10, 2012
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Oh, and Hank, every TOSU grad is a drunken gambler and every TSUN grad is an idiot. . .except you!
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Discussion Topic: Student upset at how OSU handled sexual-assault case involving wrestler
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on May 10, 2012
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"Oh, and Hank, every TOSU grad is a drunken gambler and every TSUN grad is an idiot. . .except you!"
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Where the heck is the "Like" button? !!!
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Discussion Topic: Student upset at how OSU handled sexual-assault case involving wrestler
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on May 10, 2012
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Don: I actually didn't mind your post as much as I saw it as an excuse to make a pathetic attempt at humor. Clearly all U of M grads are not as funny as the late, great Gilda Radner (UM 1970)
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Discussion Topic: Student upset at how OSU handled sexual-assault case involving wrestler
Steve Lester added to this discussion on May 10, 2012
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I have a lot of sympathy for those who bring up the Duke Lacrosse mess and the behavior of the prosecutor in that case. A very good cautionary note.
At any rate, along the line of plumbing the actions of reporters and The Ohio State University itself there appears to be a difference in the actions of TOSU vis-avis Duke U's action in the Lacrosse case.
Duke (the administration, as opposed to faculty) never made an attempt at finding guilt or innocence, and emphasized "the presumption of innocence" right from the start. While suspensions from the school were handed out to two athletes, they were termed as "interim", a precaution.
TOSU, on the other hand, reportedly made a clear finding of "“sexual misconduct: physical contact or other nonphysical conduct of a sexual nature in the absence of clear, knowing and voluntary consent.”
In this case, the suspension was a definite "sanction", whereas in the Duke case the suspensions were not.
That's a big difference.
In another post I point out that it is not clear how serious the University's "sexual conduct" finding would be from a criminal justice standpoint. We just don't know yet (or maybe ever).
On a tangent...
It seems to me that TOSU's adminstrative action would lend a bit more credibilty* to the victim in this case, as opposed to the Duke victim (actually non-victim).
*meaning I think we can categorically reject some of the musings found in this thread.
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Discussion Topic: Student upset at how OSU handled sexual-assault case involving wrestler
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 10, 2012
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Two things:
My only point in mentioning the Duke case was that I had them hanging in the town square before hearing any testimony or facts of the case. That was on me... My bad. I jumped the gun.
Secondly, Gilda Radnor died!?!?!?!?!
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Discussion Topic: Student upset at how OSU handled sexual-assault case involving wrestler
Steve Lester added to this discussion on May 10, 2012
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"Two things:
My only point in mentioning the Duke case was that I had them hanging in the town square before hearing any testimony or facts of the case. That was on me... My bad. I jumped the gun.
Secondly, Gilda Radnor died!?!?!?!?!"
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You did not jump any gun.
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Discussion Topic: Student upset at how OSU handled sexual-assault case involving wrestler
Casey Talbott added to this discussion on May 11, 2012
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I took Mark’s post to mean that he thought that he’d “jumped the gun” by passing judgment as against the Dukies, before all of the facts had come out which of course later exonerated them.
Trust me, a lot of us were right there with you…
In any event, this is a troubling story.
And while there appears to be a ring of legitimacy to it, in light of the action taken by tOSU, I’ve learned my lesson (see Duke reference, above), so I guess I’ll reserve further comment for another day…
This did remind me, however, of the following passage from Todd Tarpley’s blog “Wrestling for Gable”:
“5/30/88
Last night I drove up to Lisbon with Royce, Lewboo, Rico, Greg Randall, and Penrith. There was a party up there. It wasn't too good, so we came back to Iowa City, but it was already midnight (on Sunday) and everything was closing up.
Lewboo told me a story about walking into a room where Jeff Kerber and a girl were asleep naked on the bed. I can't tell the rest of the story, but the last line is that the girl thought he was Kerber. That's one of his milder stories.”
I bet a fair # of us got a chuckle out of this, and worse, that we’d witnessed or heard of similar events from back in the day.
Which today, of course, I recognize as an absolute shame.
Because assuming Tarpley is insinuating what he appears to be, and assuming the story is true, then this appears to have been non-consensual sexual contact (stated more strongly, "rape"), plain and simple.
And in that event, "Lewboo" should feel fortunate that he didn't spend a fair amount of time in the pokey.
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Discussion Topic: Student upset at how OSU handled sexual-assault case involving wrestler
Roe Fox added to this discussion on May 11, 2012
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"In another post I point out that it is not clear how serious the University's "sexual conduct" finding would be from a criminal justice standpoint. We just don't know yet (or maybe ever)."
The University's finding means nothing from a criminal standpoint.
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Discussion Topic: Student upset at how OSU handled sexual-assault case involving wrestler
Don Bork added to this discussion on May 11, 2012
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I don't know that TOSU, from it's investigation, is convinced of guilt so much as it is certain that it's decision will limit it's liability.
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Discussion Topic: Student upset at how OSU handled sexual-assault case involving wrestler
Steve Lester added to this discussion on May 11, 2012
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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""In another post I point out that it is not clear how serious the University's "sexual conduct" finding would be from a criminal justice standpoint. We just don't know yet (or maybe ever)."
The University's finding means nothing from a criminal standpoint."
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Yes, but not everyone gets that it appears.
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Discussion Topic: Student upset at how OSU handled sexual-assault case involving wrestler
Steve Lester added to this discussion on May 11, 2012
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Quote from Don Bork's post:
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"I don't know that TOSU, from it's investigation, is convinced of guilt so much as it is certain that it's decision will limit it's liability."
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I don't know that I buy this for a couple of reasons. I'd like to think that the decision for a finding of sexual misconduct was due to legitimate evidence that a line was well and truly crossed. Also, it seems to me, a simple "suspension pending....." limits liability even more. But I'm no expert.
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