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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 10, 2021
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Why does it appear that wrestlers are developmentally stunted?
We see it every year and only tune into it in the situations that we see on semi regular basis and/or have an interest.
How can there be such a big chasm between those that do and those that do not?
We watched the Big Tens and saw the disparity in performances amongst the elite college wrestlers of the Big Ten.
Same answer as it has always been. Some have huge holes in their games which are not corrected. They are either not doing it or doing it wrong.
It helps you look like a genius when you recruit kids who are further along the developmental curve and have completeness. The sum total of their game creates the the effect of staying in position and winning those positions.
I speak from experience as some of you know my history. Twice a state champ, blue chip (whatever, some of my skills were advanced), yet struggled to get through my first two seasons at ASU. Was seeded 7th and 2nd as Freshman and sophomore years at NCAAs. DNP. Transfer.
Why'd it happen? I had some holes in my game technical and mental that needed to be addressed and were'nt.
How'd they get addressed? It wasn't by design. Because some genius addressed my weaknesses. It was because I survived and had a great workout/drill partner in Kevin Randleman. Additionally, I learned things from coaches when I approached them or picked up from watching videos. My wrestling evolved out of necessity. I would'nt have made it without the help of my family and living at home and having an attitude of you're gonna have to outlast me (not happening). There were a lot of of ongoing dynamics of which I pay homage to.
So, when I see people struggle, I get it. People are only as good as their experience or what they are willing to see and understand. They'd rather cherrypick and attune to the story they want to tell. Problem is, when you do that, you address issues that don't matter and never solve real problems.
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Last edited by Rex Holman on March 10, 2021; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 10, 2021
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You learn a lot of stuff after events happen. They seem like parables sometimes. I've probably written about this story before but I think it bears repeating.
You are only as good as what you know.
Iowa/OSU dual, don't remember the year, @ OSU St Johns Arena; Mocco vs Rowlands. I remember getting so upset watching the match as Tommy could'nt keep him off his head with a tie. So much that it influenced that match and Tommy lost. I understood it. I had wrestled Joel Sharratt, who did the same damn thing. It'd be years later when I was at the OTC and questioned a world champ about his technique to clear the tie. It is what is now referred to as an elbow pass. Yet, no one was able to address it for me until I went to someone that used it.
Anyway, after the match, I am charged and have to speak to him to tell him what he can do to prevent that situation. While talking, another coach proceeds to engage Tommy and tells him that he needs to bait Mocco to shoot. For the love of God-NO!
So, I go to practice the next day and another coach comes up and begins telling Tommy about tying up Mocco with Russian ties. Great idea Einstein. Not so much.
Elbow pass is signal; everything else was noise.
Yet, here are coaches speaking "their truth" which is nonsense and based on their interpretation. A subjective viewpoint that will likely cause more misery and pain; yet preaching it like gospel. Make me vomit.
My prediction and opinion. Nelson Brands is going to AA this year because none of his opponents are adept at an elbow pass. He's got a heavy collar tie and wicked snap. Needs to be negated in order to beat him. Otherwise, he is in the hunt for a win against everyone at the weight as he will fatigue them and bring forth their worst position.
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Last edited by Rex Holman on March 10, 2021; edited 2 times in total
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Don Bork added to this discussion on March 10, 2021
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Thanks for joining/creating this discussion. So, shouldn’t it be the coaches that help recognize and point out to their athletes what their weaknesses are, and then make it a point to prioritize efforts to improve? Sometimes I wonder if we are working to much on improving our strengths, and not our weaknesses. It seems that if a wrestler has one glaring weakness that could be taken advantage of and be the difference between success and failure.
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Don Bork added to this discussion on March 10, 2021
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So your second post arrives as I typed my first, which in some ways answered my questions. Do we need new/different ideas in the room? Coaches that are open to new ideas different from their own?
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 10, 2021
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Weaknesses are relative to an individual and run the spectrum from taking one practice to correct to never correcting. Wrestler has to understand what's wrong and actively implement a solution. Yes, a coach should be the dominating intervention in this matter.
That being said; I've seen coaches address weaknesses with malarkey as mentioned in the story above. I've seen wrestlers with learning disabilities that don't comprehend what is being taught or have little to no aptitude for a position.
So, it is the responsibility of all parties involved.
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Last edited by Rex Holman on March 10, 2021; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 10, 2021
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Let me answer your question with a question.
Is the coach who never had an issue scoring on his feet the best coach for a guy who struggles to create offense? or maybe is it the coach who struggled with attacks but figured it out over time and intimately knows/understands the problem.
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 10, 2021
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Maybe the real benefit of an RTC should be to bring wrestlers in to develop your wrestlers. The guys actively trying to make Olympic teams are typically selfish, not all of them mind you, but the vast majority. My two cents is bring in a guy that wants to coach. Must be passionate and enthusiastic about helping others achieve greatness. A guy that is a 1-2x AA that was'nt complete but became near complete and needs to be able to wrestle on a daily basis.
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 10, 2021
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"Let me answer your question with a question.
Is the coach who never had an issue scoring on his feet the best coach for a guy who struggles to create offense? or maybe is it the coach who struggled with attacks but figured it out over time and intimately knows/understands the problem."
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Ted Williams wasn't a good hitting coach.
Cael is a great coach.
I believe it more of the individuals mindset rather than their God-given abilities.
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Don Bork added to this discussion on March 10, 2021
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I’ve been wondering about our RTC. I am not familiar with the roster, but beyond Kollin and Myles, who else is there. And because they came through our program, they may not be bringing new ideas. I absolutely agree that the RTC is a way to bring new thoughts and higher level training partners to our program. But, again, if the current coaches are not willing to be open to and embrace these ideas, it can counterproductive. I would agree that a more highly effective coach is one that was not simply successful at the craft, but understood why he was and then possessed the ability to relate to his athletes.
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Last edited by Don Bork on March 10, 2021; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 10, 2021
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"Let me answer your question with a question.
Is the coach who never had an issue scoring on his feet the best coach for a guy who struggles to create offense? or maybe is it the coach who struggled with attacks but figured it out over time and intimately knows/understands the problem."
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Ted Williams wasn't a good hitting coach.
Cael is a great coach.
I believe it more of the individuals mindset rather than their God-given abilities."
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Cael is a great coach but he isn't coaching Dylan D'Emiliio, Rocky Jordan, or Gavin Huffman. He'd have to address their individual weaknesses just like any other coach.
Please elaborate on individual mindset.
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 10, 2021
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"Let me answer your question with a question.
Is the coach who never had an issue scoring on his feet the best coach for a guy who struggles to create offense? or maybe is it the coach who struggled with attacks but figured it out over time and intimately knows/understands the problem."
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Ted Williams wasn't a good hitting coach.
Cael is a great coach.
I believe it more of the individuals mindset rather than their God-given abilities."
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Cael is a great coach but he isn't coaching Dylan D'Emiliio, Rocky Jordan, or Gavin Huffman. He'd have to address their individual weaknesses just like any other coach.
Please elaborate on individual mindset."
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I said he was a great coach because of his approach to wrestling / coaching. It's very individualistic - and it's a very fun environment. I remember hearing Reece Humphrey talk about wrestling on a world team with him and how it was so fun. I've taken my teams to PSU camps 3 or 4 times. His approach to coaching is unlike anything I'd ever been exposed to before or after.
PSU still has "misses" (the reason Bartlett was in at 149 despite being a 41 at best, the reason 125 has been a hole since Suriano left) but they seem to not last long in their starting line-up.
Individual mindset -- meaning do you have a "system" to teach to everybody on your team regardless of individual abilities or are you always open to learning, adapting, discovering new technique that benefits each specific individual. IMHO, the later is much more time consuming and difficult.
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on March 10, 2021
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Rex do you think the Bucks need to make some changes to the coaching staff to address some of the issues facing certain guys?
I look at Rocky Jordan and see some of the same issues Bo and Micah had with bottom wrestling. Those guys have been wrestling since they could walk, and have been around some great coaches their entire lives and still have bottom issues.
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 10, 2021
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Bait Mocco into shooting? OMG.
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 10, 2021
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Bait Mocco into shooting? OMG."
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BWAHAHAHAHAHA
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 10, 2021
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Brady-I agree with what you said. Cael does get the benefit of being everyone's hero. Everyone would like to wrestle for him. There is no arguing his productivity. Some guys might like similar coming out of high school, but they are sometimes two very different things. RBY, Aaron Brooks, Carter Starocci are very special athletes. They get a lot of the very special athletes. Plus, when you have exceptional wrestlers it sets the bar for others.
Jim-
What I am saying is find someone who graduated in the last 3-4 years who is coaching that fits the above profile and has a style/body similar to those athletes and get them into the RTC with express purpose of developing those guys. Their hand fighting leaves a lot to be desired. As does the mental discipline required to wrestle from good positions for seven minutes.
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