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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 13, 2023
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I was not at the state meet in person but have watched a bunch of matches via Flo/Trackwrestling. My opinion is that the quality of wrestling in Ohio has diminished. I saw plenty of good wrestlers but few I'd qualify as great. By great, I mean wrestlers that look ready to step into a D1 lineup and compete.
Marcus and Joey Blaze are ready. So is Jaxon Joy from Wadsworth. But who else?
As an example, let's talk about Ohio's flagship program, St Eds. Who are the killers in that lineup? Did you see any Lance Palmers? Ryan Langs? Jim Heffernans? Alan Frieds? Etc.... St Eds had a bunch of good young wrestlers feasting on lousy competition throughout the sectional and district but I didn't see one young man in the green and gold that I looked at and thought--that's a superstar. And they won D1 by a huge margin.
My comment to a knowledgable friend of mine was that I might as well have been watching the Missouri state meet. Ohio, once the only state that could contend with Pennsylvania, has really fallen off. He agreed.
Sorry to be a "debbie downer". Tell me I'm wrong. I want to believe you. Am I missing something? According to the national rankings, I'm not.
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Last edited by Hank Kornblut on March 13, 2023; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on March 13, 2023
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You are not wrong Hank. Ohio is so far down from what it used to be it isn’t even close. No wrestler in the whole state is a top 5 wrestler barely in their respective weights.
According to flo top ranked Ohio kids
Marcus blaze 3
Joey blaze 1
That is all
Herman and Birden 6
Joy 8
McDaniel 7
Shula we 8
2 top 5 wrestlers and 7 top 10 wrestlers.
Now let’s go back almost 20 years ago when I was in school these are the guys. All mostly top of the nation kind of guys that I remember
Lance Palmer
Collin Palmer
J Jaggers
Jason Johnstone
Dustin Schallter
Steve lluke
Dustin Fox
Joe Dennis
David Irwin
Kirk Nail
Mike pucillo
Rocco Caponi
I mean this is a night and day difference in talent in less than 20 years. I may have even forgot some guys. This is just who I remember. There is no doubt the difference is huge but I think it will eventually turn back around. I have hope that these youth clubs around the state start turning things around hopefully soon.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 13, 2023
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Nick: In 1996, I coached two state champions--Josh Greenspan and Kore Sharpley.
Kore won D1 112. He went on to become a 2 year starter and 2x NCAA qualifier for Ohio State. He finished above seed both times at Big Tens (twice 5th if memory serves). Robert Sessley went on to win D2 at 112. He was a 4x AA for the Buckeyes. The D3 112 pound champion was Scott Burnett. He was arguably the best of the three at the time. Apparently, he's a pretty good coach (Perrysburg).
The wrestler Kore beat in the semis, Rico Hill, had a terrific career at Mt St Joseph. And now he's doing great work as the head coach at Cinci LaSalle.
Incidentally, Kore Sharpley did not even qualify for state until his senior year. The wrestler who put him out in an OT battle in Mentor District cons semis the year before was Brent Thompson. He was a 4x MAC champion for Kent. And the wrestler Kore defeated in the finals, Joe DiMichelle, was also a starter for Kent.
Josh Greenspan defeated Kevin Boross in the finals. Boross was a starter for NC State and defeat Mark Smith at NCAA's (it was a big deal at the time as Smith's brothers--Leroy, John and Pat--had all won NCAA titles). Josh was a starter for Cleve. State. The D2 champion was Neal Bailey from Ravenna SE. He was better than Boross and Josh. So was 3rd place finisher Matt Hamill. Hamill won three D3 NCAA championships and became a star in ultimate fighting. The D3 champ was Josh Schroeder who was outstanding in his own right. Kevin Welsh won the state title the year before at 160 and went on to win NHSCA's (The Super 32 of it's time). He was also an AA for Edinboro. And he never won the Mentor District.
Third place state finisher at 160 in 1996 was Steve Sletvold. He won NHSCA's (think Super 32) the following season...but not state. Bo James beat him out. Two incredible studs.
My 171, Ben Greenspan, did not win state. The guy who did was Sean Salmon, an incredible talent in his own right. He spent some time in the Buckeye room but I believe there were some star crossed elements to his career.
Also finishing ahead of Ben was Nick Magistrelli. He was a four year starter for Kent and a round of 12 finisher as a senior.
Did I metion that another solid middle weight of that era was John McGee (160 lbs)? He's on a short list of the greatest high school wrestlers in Ohio history. Oh, and somewhere in the mix was John Wervey. He took 3rd at state a couple times and had a nice career for the OU Bobcats.
I'm just spit balling here. There's so many more guys to talk about from different weights and different years.
And suddenly it has slowed to a crawl. What the hell happened to Ohio high school wrestling?
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on March 13, 2023
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Yes I see no one in the state ever winning a national title in college of anyone from 2023, 2024, 2025, 2026 classes.
In 2004. High schoolers from Ohio to win ncaas all wrestling at the state tournament at the same time
Jaggers,pucillo, Luke, fox, schlatter.
Palmer second.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 13, 2023
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"You are not wrong Hank. Ohio is so far down from what it used to be it isn’t even close.
I mean this is a night and day difference in talent in less than 20 years. I may have even forgot some guys. This is just who I remember. There is no doubt the difference is huge but I think it will eventually turn back around. I have hope that these youth clubs around the state start turning things around hopefully soon."
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u guys r right, and yes so many giants u forget the likes of David Taylor, Jamie Clark, Ryan Lang, Bertin, the Jayne boyz, the Walsh kids Knupp, Marcheti & crew, Coventry kids too Johny McGhee, Chad Owens--- heck even Zach Thompson reached NCAA finals.--the Jordans, the Monroville boyz, twas an emabarrasment of riches.
if our historical guru Mr Niemann goes back several years he will find a nutcase called BobP said these same things on here,and more than once, 3 or 4, maybe even 5 yrs ago.
since i have no answers i blame it on weak sperm in ohio men ...
and the loss of support from CYO's and YMCA's. Anyone recall up here, North Akron Y, Longwood Y, East Cleveland Y--- some of the Catholic school programs--they each produced NCAA champs not just state.
One year ohio had 13 wts, the Div I Mentor Meatgrinder produced 10 AAA champs. Hank knows, he was there, he had his owns studs, Sharpley, the Greenspans, Peter Nathanson.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Chris Thomas added to this discussion on March 13, 2023
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Hank, I think we were spoiled in Ohio with the Nato's and Jordan's of the world. That's why Ohio St had took a step back of recent......I think that youth programs have taken a step back. I still see some talent in Ohio. I think Ed's 106 is really tough and other guys that can turn into stars. They are just really young. I think Herman is very talented he won a college tournament last year when he had to seat out. I think we just lack the depth we once had in Ohio. The "middle class" of are depth has shrunk some what. You just don't see the same depth you use to see in d3 in Ohio. Maybe drop to 2 divisons?
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 13, 2023
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Dropping to two divisions won’t increase Ohio’s depth. Jist makes less competitors at the state tournament which I don’t think is a good thing.
They sky isn’t falling as bad as some make it seem. OH still had what, the 3rd most NCAA qualifiers of any state?
As Aaron Rodgers would say, R-E-L-A-X
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Casey Talbott added to this discussion on March 14, 2023
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[quote="Nick Lecklider"]Yes I see no one in the state ever winning a national title in college of anyone from 2023, 2024, 2025, 2026 classes. quote]
I’ll take that bet.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Ben Golden added to this discussion on March 14, 2023
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"
since i have no answers i blame it on weak sperm in ohio men ..."
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I laughed out loud.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 14, 2023
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"Dropping to two divisions won’t increase Ohio’s depth. Jist makes less competitors at the state tournament which I don’t think is a good thing.
They sky isn’t falling as bad as some make it seem. OH still had what, the 3rd most NCAA qualifiers of any state?
As Aaron Rodgers would say, R-E-L-A-X"
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Legit point. As I said, I'd like to be wrong.
Bob's comment should be placed on a t-shirt.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on March 14, 2023
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"Yes I see no one in the state ever winning a national title in college of anyone from 2023, 2024, 2025, 2026 classes.
In 2004. High schoolers from Ohio to win ncaas all wrestling at the state tournament at the same time
Jaggers,pucillo, Luke, fox, schlatter.
Palmer second."
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I went to HS nationals with a lot of those guys mentioned from 96. We had a camp at Coventry HS before making the trip to PA. All great guys.
I think that tournament back in the day was harder than super 32 but that’s just me.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on March 14, 2023
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I think Ohio wrestling is down, certainly down from it's best years ever. But don't sleep on this St. Edward team. They are young and good. How many times has a team RETURNED 14 state qualifiers? 11 placers, I believe? And most of them have a couple years left. There are All Americans on that team.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Chris Thomas added to this discussion on March 14, 2023
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"I think Ohio wrestling is down, certainly down from it's best years ever. But don't sleep on this St. Edward team. They are young and good. How many times has a team RETURNED 14 state qualifiers? 11 placers, I believe? And most of them have a couple years left. There are All Americans on that team."
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I 100% agree
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Chris Thomas added to this discussion on March 14, 2023
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"Dropping to two divisions won’t increase Ohio’s depth. Jist makes less competitors at the state tournament which I don’t think is a good thing.
They sky isn’t falling as bad as some make it seem. OH still had what, the 3rd most NCAA qualifiers of any state?
As Aaron Rodgers would say, R-E-L-A-X"
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It won't improve the depth but it would increase the quality of sectionals, districts, and the state product. Just was throwing out a idea not trying to take D3 away Brady.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 14, 2023
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I'll relay a fact.
112 kids on the podium in D1 (14 weights x 8 placers)
40 (35.7%) are from 5 nationally ranked teams
St Eds (11)
Perrysburg(8)
Brecksville(8)
Massillon Perry(7)
Wadsworth(6)
Sends a message that if you want to be successful, it's best go to a wrestling academy. Greyshirt a year or two.
Regardless of outward appearance, the kids are all a function of development and aptitude which results in performance.
When you have an elite marriage of development and aptitude, you produce a Logan Stieber.
More time to develop results in better performance. i.e holding your wrestler back a year in middle school, great coaching and starting wrestlers early in a structured biddy programs.
I walked to the junior high after elementary school in 5th and 6th grade for wrestling practice. Thank you, Joe Biggs! My dad took us to every wrestling tournament growing up and sent me to camps. I was in the eighth grade calling up the Captain of the Varsity team, Chris Kolly, to see if he wanted to work out. Those things played a role in my development.
Greater aptitude, i.e. kinesthetic awareness, ability to learn, & strength results in faster maturation and hence better performance. That being said a lot of wrestlers have the aptitude but it takes time to manifest.
How many times as a coach have you said to yourself, " I wish I had one more year with that wrestler" (to get them on that podium)
Anyway, these are some of the dynamics at play when you talk about greatness.
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