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Discussion Topic: NHSCA Senior Nationals
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 26, 2008
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I just read Josh "Bucksman" Lowe's Wrestling411USA preview of NHSCA Senior Nationals. I hope he'll weigh in but it seems to me that in general there are more good kids not participating than in the past. Certainly that seems true of Ohio. This Ohio squad may be the weakest we've ever had. Noteable Ohio wrestlers participating per weight (and I apologize to those I miss).
103: Justin Toth (and maybe 10 kids registered)
112: Bart Young (Ohio's only entrant)
119: Kyle Gilchrist, Garrett Henry
125: Dan Genetin, Troy Opfer, Tom Pretty
130: Sean Collins
135: Chase Skonieczny
140: Lee Schumaker
145: Chris Canty, Zach Nelson
152: Jedd Moore, Jared Kusar
160: Eric Cubberly, Steve Wilson
171: Brian Roddy
189: Nobody registered
215: Matt Fisher, Travis Porter
285: John Hiles
Some of the seniors missing: Mitcheff, Fields, Jameson, Jordan, Witt, Boyd, Tank, Magrum, Cogar, Z. Thomusseit
Maybe it's just me but it seems like Ohio kids haven't the same level of interest in this event we've seen in the past. And, after perusing the article by Josh, it appears that more highly regarded kids than in the past are choosing to stay home. (He can confirm or refute this assertion)
I also perused the review of junior, sophomore, and freshman nationals. Again, most of Ohio's best kids were not registered. Indeed, registration seems down for these events.
One thought: As more kids sign early -- and that's the trend -- the incentive for participating after a long season seems to be on the wane. I also think that leaving Cleveland hurt this tourney. As long as the event was in Ohio, the best in this state were more likely to do it. Now, it's in Virginia Beach. Who does that locale attract? That's my Ohio bias, of course.
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Discussion Topic: NHSCA Senior Nationals
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on March 26, 2008
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I heard that Ryan Nakama from Big Walnut, wrestling in the Jr competition, won his first round match over a kid who placed 5th in MN and his second match over a state champ from WI, I think. (but don't quote me.)
Often these events are a great showcase for some of the less heralded wrestlers from Ohio who NEED a breakout tourney to be noticed.
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Discussion Topic: NHSCA Senior Nationals
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 26, 2008
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Actually, I perused the 171's to see who might be available for the Bucks. There are some guys still available with good credentials. Who knows how good they actually are?
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Discussion Topic: NHSCA Senior Nationals
Josh Lowe added to this discussion on March 26, 2008
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I'll have to look at brackets later, but it seems that there are less core players than the past.
Early signing as Hank mentioned is a key factor.
Location is another - VA Beach is out of the way for so much of the country. It is also not a hub airport location - unlike Cleveland or PIT.
School breaks are obviously an issue for the frosh to juniors more than the seniors.
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Discussion Topic: NHSCA Senior Nationals
Ryan Cubberly added to this discussion on March 28, 2008
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Eric won his first round match 15-2 or something like that.
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Discussion Topic: NHSCA Senior Nationals
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 28, 2008
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no doubt in my mind that the NHSCA Sr nationals got their best & deepest fields ever when the event was in Pittsburgh and esp Cleveland. Cleveland was just easy to fly into, take the rapid downtown, then hotels were within walking distance of the Convention Center. Amounted to
big savings
on van rentals.
also a big factor, this is an expensive event to enter-- expensive not to just get there, but for entry fees too. And CNN says we are "probably in a recession".
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Discussion Topic: NHSCA Senior Nationals
Jack Muni added to this discussion on March 28, 2008
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Watching the NCAA last weekend reminded me of the Senior Nationals in Cleveland, where I saw J Jaggers, Jordan Leen and Mike Pucillo all win (and Metcalf lose to Dustin) as seniors, and now they are all NCAA Champs. Didn't Mark Perry also win in Cleveland?
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Discussion Topic: NHSCA Senior Nationals
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 28, 2008
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at one time NHSCA Sr nationals could rightfully claim over 80 % of the NCAA finalists wrestled in Sr nationals. i doubt that claim can still be made in a 3 years, but we will see.
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Discussion Topic: NHSCA Senior Nationals
Josh Lowe added to this discussion on March 28, 2008
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Looking through the senior brackets, I can ID some very solid weights that have lots of stars in them. Then there are others that seem spotty.
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Discussion Topic: NHSCA Senior Nationals
J.P. Barner added to this discussion on March 29, 2008
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Quote from Josh Lowe's post:
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"Looking through the senior brackets, I can ID some very solid weights that have lots of stars in them. Then there are others that seem spotty."
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How about posting a link to the senior brackets for the underprivileged? <cool>
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Discussion Topic: NHSCA Senior Nationals
Greg Debbe added to this discussion on March 29, 2008
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Discussion Topic: NHSCA Senior Nationals
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 29, 2008
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long time
California guru Al Fontes
, when i emailed him as to his
opinion about strength of Sr nationals this year
seems to agree with me. California normally has the best turnout for NHSCA Sr nationals, they get sponsors to cover costs, and historically only Ohio has won more team titles. Fontes emailed me back:
"Ohio Bob, I agree. As for California, we left home approximately 17 potential medal contenders...Not happy with our turnout."
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Discussion Topic: NHSCA Senior Nationals
Grant Varnum added to this discussion on March 29, 2008
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i would be interested to know if more Cali kids would have gone if it were held in Cleveland once again.....
also, i guess that since just several years ago, when the highlight match in the finals was a pair of guys named, ummmm, schlatter and uhhh, metcalf i think it was, this tournament has taken a different turn...
non-placers, non-qualifiers, heck, even JV wrestlers can eek their way in with the right "who-you-know"......i don't know what the real reason behind the downturn in elite participation is, but it is a shame not to get excited to see matches like the one above.
bring it back to cleveland!!!!
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Discussion Topic: NHSCA Senior Nationals
Dan Cosimi added to this discussion on March 30, 2008
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I don't know if the competition is as "down" as some think.
None of the Ohio wrestlers that did enter (aside from Messerall) did notably better than I thought they should have done. Moore, Kusar, Cubberly, Roddy, and Hiles - some of the cream of the crop in Ohio - have done very well but didn't quite make the finals. Everyone else, including state champs, finalists, and placers, didn't place.
If we're saying the overall talent pool has declined, why didn't we do better?
2008 NHSCA Senior National All-Americans from Ohio
1st-2nd - 135: Chase Skonieczny (Cuyahoga Falls Walsh Jesuit)
3rd-6th - 140: Caleb Messerall (Worthington)
3rd-6th - 152: Jedd Moore (Marion Pleasant)
3rd-6th - 160: Eric Cubberly (Pemberville Eastwood)
3rd-6th - 171: Brian Roddy (Lakewood St. Edward)
3rd-6th - 285: John Hiles (Columbus St. Francis DeSales)
7th-8th - 152: Jared Kusar (Cuyahoga Valley Christian Academy)
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Discussion Topic: NHSCA Senior Nationals
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 30, 2008
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"If we're saying the overall talent pool has declined, why didn't we do better? "
DC,
the reason Ohio didnt do better is that this is
Not a real good Ohio senior class,
by Ohio's normal standards
---although there are a handful of exceptions. I don't think anyone thought this class would do real well in Va Beach even if all the top seniors attended.
the overall NHSCA Seniors talent is down, imo, and has been down since the event left Cleveland---
i attended every NHSCA Seniors tourn from the first one in about 1990 up thru the last one in Cleveland several years ago,
so i am familiar with the kind of talent this event has attracted in the FAT years, that is the decade from the mid 90s thru the Cleveland years.
Fact is
the standard to enter the tourn is lower
than it used to be during the FAT years, in order to maintain the quota of entries--- and VA Beach not the convenient hub that Cleveland and even Pittaburgh were. California long time guru
Al Fontes
tells me he is disappointed in his states turnout, and Calif always leads the nation in being able to get get most of its best seniors to this tourn.
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