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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on August 12, 2020
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"
We need everyone to understand that the simple act of wearing a mask in public and avoiding crowds is the only proven method of flattening the virus.
I always return to the proliferation of skin issues in wrestling as an example of how to do things the right way. What if 30% of wrestling programs had refused to take action? What if we didn't do skin checks before matches? We never would have gotten it under control. And the programs which did things the right way would have been as negatively impacted as the rest.
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Two points, for what they are worth (which is not much).
IMO, there is no "only proven method". Those methods may be the best we have but I would never call them "proven".
Second, I really take exception to the idea that skin checks have very much to do with the downturn in skin issues. I am one of the people who is doing skin checks and I have absolutely NO background with regards to skin. All I can do is say that something does not look good and I can stop a wrestler from competing. I can assure you that probably 95% of the time, I will then get an earful from the coach. Heck, I have had coaches use make up to hide skin issues on kids.
My daughter in law is a dermatologist and I trust her a LOT more than I trust myself. In her words, without a spot being tested, there is no way to know what you are dealing with for sure.
The only place I feel really comfortable is a tournament like Brecksville. They bring in a number of physicians and trainers and they all consult if/when they find a problem. IOW, they do not want anyone slipping by and affecting everyone else. Funny thing is that, over the years, I have had a number of coaches complain that they are too thorough, whatever that is.
I will give full credit to the majority of coaches because they realized that if the sport has skin issues, the sport of wrestling will go away. They are the driving force behind the improvement. It is not the cursory skin checks.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Jason L. Jackson added to this discussion on August 12, 2020
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I saw a post today from a Michigan podcast that indicated that the president of the university (Michigan) was a doctor who specializes in immunology. The president apparently voted to cancel the season.
The podcast was mad that the president of the university didn't consult with the players before voting.
In what society does an immunology specialist consult with 18-22 year old kinesiology majors to see what actions they should take? Our society is so broken that everyone thinks their opinion is the one that matters. A large portion of our society no longer trusts experts, because there are so many cranks out there blasting uninformed opinions based on something they saw on Facebook.
The truth is, the people most surprised by this move and upset about it are the ones who fought the infectious disease experts the whole time and contributed to the lengthening of the pandemic. But hey, we can't infringe on anyone's perceived liberty in the name of the greater good.
You reap what you sow. Unfortunately, we all have to reap what others have sowed in this circumstance. And those who refused to comply with a basic request like wearing a mask, will now blame something else, and won't learn a damn thing.
Maybe we'll get lucky and this will all just disappear like a certain prominent individual keeps saying, but I doubt it. Instead of wishing for a miracle, we should have been taking active steps to address the problem head on, not arguing with the experts and recommending blasts of ultraviolet light and injecting bleach into our lungs.
#RantOver
#Sorry
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on August 12, 2020
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Why are Big 12, SEC, ACC going ahead with their seasons leaving the Big Ten in Nowheresville in recruiting, revenue, and credible leadership???
Hank & JJ,
your preaching to the choir, ive been Pro-mask and anti-shutdown from Day one. This is just an expansion of the Shutdown Mania. Hows that worked, all consequences considered??
Well 4 Trillion dollars later, money we don't have but printed ....the only answer is still print more money. And ugh Shutdown.
i posted a month ago..."didnt have to be a genius to forsee our econmomy would be wrecked and many millions of lives in dire straits from the shutdown. And now we see the lingering effects of no mask-mandate nationally. .... And then theres the inevitable social upheaval. ..so now we are there." ...BINGO
i posted on here days after the shutdown, FIVE months ago. i posted on March 19.... i didnt question DeWine for mask policy, but the shutdown oh Yes.
Quote:
"agree DeWine showing plenty of backbone-- i hope he and other governors are right because there is a very very high cost to shutting down much of society."
"Look for "Depression era" job reports. There wont be state, county or local revenue to support budgets. Much personal wealth already has been wiped out and its not done. Many small businesses closed will NEVER come back."
"lastly, society is FRAGILE- a desperate frame of mind is a source of mental breakdowns, disorder and mayhem, if this lasts long. ...Certainly our lives will be more & more under Govt control going forward even after this virus blows over. ... i'm not saying DeWine is wrong, just that theres a lot to ponder, the stakes are high.."
......BINGO
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 12, 2020
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Jim Behrens: I developed a pretty good eye for ringworm and impetigo as a coach. I suspect you're better at it than you think.
As to what works, hell, call me old fashioned but I think you look at countries which are having success and do what they do. In America, we immediately decide which side of an issue is "liberal" or "conservative" and then take our cues as to how we should feel. It's nuts.
Excellent points Mr Jackson.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Alex Creech added to this discussion on August 12, 2020
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Quote from Jason L. Jackson's post:
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"I saw a post today from a Michigan podcast that indicated that the president of the university (Michigan) was a doctor who specializes in immunology. The president apparently voted to cancel the season.
The podcast was mad that the president of the university didn't consult with the players before voting.
In what society does an immunology specialist consult with 18-22 year old kinesiology majors to see what actions they should take? Our society is so broken that everyone thinks their opinion is the one that matters. A large portion of our society no longer trusts experts, because there are so many cranks out there blasting uninformed opinions based on something they saw on Facebook.
The truth is, the people most surprised by this move and upset about it are the ones who fought the infectious disease experts the whole time and contributed to the lengthening of the pandemic. But hey, we can't infringe on anyone's perceived liberty in the name of the greater good.
You reap what you sow. Unfortunately, we all have to reap what others have sowed in this circumstance. And those who refused to comply with a basic request like wearing a mask, will now blame something else, and won't learn a damn thing.
Maybe we'll get lucky and this will all just disappear like a certain prominent individual keeps saying, but I doubt it. Instead of wishing for a miracle, we should have been taking active steps to address the problem head on, not arguing with the experts and recommending blasts of ultraviolet light and injecting bleach into our lungs.
#RantOver
#Sorry"
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Yup, that's a rant.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on August 13, 2020
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was threat of Myocarditus just a strawman to support the decision? A doctor discusses on ElevenWarriors:
"Resources can’t be the issue. Lack of medical competency to safely navigate this risk and cautiously screen for it can’t be the issue. Every Power 5 team could run an EKG, blood work, echocardiogram, exercise stress test (on a gold-plated treadmill, no less), and cardiac MRI on every athlete and still save money compared to the financial loss of canceling a season of football. Cost can’t be the issue, either. So, what is it?
I want to emphasize how much I agree that one life, one long-term heart condition, is far too high a price to pay for football. My stance is not “this is rare, so let’s take the risk and see how it goes.” Far from it.
Rather, I feel the college football medical world was ready to handle this risk and successfully navigate it. It’s what we are trained for. We are champions of athlete safety. That’s why starting quarterbacks are held out if they’re concussed, or if they have mono (risk of spleen rupture), or if their injury isn’t strong enough yet for them to be able to protect themselves in full contact. We don’t cut corners with athlete wellbeing, and risks related to COVID-19 are no exception.
****If long-term unknown risks and myocarditis were the catalysts for canceling fall sports, I’m not sure when it will be deemed safe to continue. We won’t know long-term risks until, well, long-term.
I don’t know that there’s much more preparation we can do as a medical community that hasn’t already been planned for in the last five months that we’ve had to get ready.
A spring season seems arbitrary. Coronavirus and myocarditis will still be risks we need to effectively and comprehensively deal with in the spring.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on August 13, 2020
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 13, 2020
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"In what society does an immunology specialist consult with 18-22 year old kinesiology majors to see what actions they should take? Our society is so broken that everyone thinks their opinion is the one that matters. A large portion of our society no longer trusts experts, because there are so many cranks out there blasting uninformed opinions based on something they saw on Facebook."
My type of rant.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Alex Creech added to this discussion on August 13, 2020
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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""In what society does an immunology specialist consult with 18-22 year old kinesiology majors to see what actions they should take? Our society is so broken that everyone thinks their opinion is the one that matters. A large portion of our society no longer trusts experts, because there are so many cranks out there blasting uninformed opinions based on something they saw on Facebook."
My type of rant."
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Shocking.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on August 14, 2020
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 14, 2020
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Brady: I wish it were as simple as this coach makes it out to be. And I'm sympathetic to his point of view. I want wrestling. I want football. But I don't want my immunologically compromised wife to die because a high school football player made a choice, got covid, gave it to another kid who gave it someone we know who gave it to my wife (or your elderly parents for that matter). It's not individual freedom vs the state. It's how do we control a quirky, dangerous illness that poses a significant health risk while still maintaining some semblance of normalcy?
I'll be the first to tell you that I don't know. But in the next breath I'll say we need to listen first to the folks who do and follow their instructions even as we continue to discuss the issues associated dealing with a pandemic. Because the flat out refusal by a segment of our society to even just wear a mask in public isn't just stupid. It's dangerous to everyone. And it worsens the situation. I fear for our society. Because when we make up facts to suit our desires, we delude ourselves into ruin.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on August 14, 2020
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"In America, we immediately decide which side of an issue is "liberal" or "conservative" and then take our cues as to how we should feel. It's nuts. "
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Agreed, Hank. I don't know if it's the 24 hour news cycle, or online echo chambers or what, but we view our whole world through the lens of partisan politics and it makes everyone dumber. I think everyone had a more balanced approach on life when the scope of life that we lived in was the communities around us, which is something that has rapidly deteriorated in the last few decades.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Alex Creech added to this discussion on August 14, 2020
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Because the flat out refusal by a segment of our society to even just wear a mask in public isn't just stupid. It's dangerous to everyone. And it worsens the situation. I fear for our society. Because when we make up facts to suit our desires, we delude ourselves into ruin."
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Like it or not, they disagree with you, and they have that right. It's not dangerous to everyone. This idea that we would all be fine, there would hardly be any spread, there wouldn't have been shutdowns, all because of masks is a false narrative.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on August 14, 2020
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Hank - I hear ya and understand what you are saying. I just disagree and I’m ok with that because I believe you are believing and living genuinely as you believe. As am I.
What, for me, is the or a tough part is there are “experts” who are giving conflicting reports. “Experts” who are flip-flopping on what they are saying. (Fauci said mask not necessary for healthy to you should wear masks and goggles. In person voting dangerous to not dangerous with precautions. Neck gators are not WORSE than wearing nothing???? Almost like they are weatherman who say “it may or may not rain.”
I know there is a risk associated with this virus and living “normally”. I have masks with me and will wear them when part of my job, where them when a store requires it, and wear it if I approach (emphasis on the I) somebody wearing one if I want to talk. When I am not wearing one and a person wearing one APPROCHES me, I don’t feel the need to quickly put one on.
I separate kids by fall sport teams for open mats to not “cross contaminate” but I also know these kids are getting together at the park/home/etc hanging out so ..... but I will be responsible in my own world to live responsibly.
Where I bristle at this is when others DEMAND that I believe and act like them because only they are right. We all believe we are correct yes? If not, we wouldn’t be acting in the manner we do. I accept this fact and don’t desire to demand others live as I do. To be clear, I’m not projecting this on anybody on here, but I have encountered it in where I live.
The last line of his speech is dead on for me.
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Last edited by Brady Hiatt on August 15, 2020; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
David Brown added to this discussion on August 14, 2020
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Players are likely SAFER playing than just going back to their homes and going into classrooms. An argument can be made that it is riskier to cancel than to play. That is what Duke doctors are telling Clemson and the ACC. In the end, the Big 10 will not look like the responsible big brother. IMO they will look like the mother who takes her kid to the park and doesn't let him play with the other kids because she doesn't want him to get dirty.
I think part of the issue is that we expect experts to be unified, to say the same thing. That is rarely the case. Several experts can look at the exact same data and arrive at different conclusions. We still only have 70% flu shot compliance from the STAFF at our hospital. People know the flu can kill but just don't assess the risk the same as others.
The question becomes "when is the risk acceptable"? To me it is acceptable now. I want my kids in school and I want them in sports. Everyone scores differently on the risk aversion scale. For those arguing we should have masked up early, we only learned this week that gators and masks with vents offer "no" protection. That is over half the masks I see here in Detroit.
There never was a "safe" option. Nobody except maybe New Zealand achieved full virus starvation. And we can't do what they did. We are too different. US rate of mask wearing is actually one of the highest in the world. IMO there will be more loss of life and devastation when the final tally is in from shutdown than from Covid.
I miss the days of the old fashioned chicken pox parties. Maybe Sweden was right.
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