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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Roe Fox added to this discussion on March 10, 2021
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"Let me answer your question with a question.
Is the coach who never had an issue scoring on his feet the best coach for a guy who struggles to create offense? or maybe is it the coach who struggled with attacks but figured it out over time and intimately knows/understands the problem."
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Ted Williams wasn't a good hitting coach.
Cael is a great coach.
I believe it more of the individuals mindset rather than their God-given abilities."
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Cael is a great coach but he isn't coaching Dylan D'Emiliio, Rocky Jordan, or Gavin Huffman. He'd have to address their individual weaknesses just like any other coach.
Please elaborate on individual mindset."
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I said he was a great coach because of his approach to wrestling / coaching. It's very individualistic - and it's a very fun environment. I remember hearing Reece Humphrey talk about wrestling on a world team with him and how it was so fun. I've taken my teams to PSU camps 3 or 4 times. His approach to coaching is unlike anything I'd ever been exposed to before or after.
PSU still has "misses" (the reason Bartlett was in at 149 despite being a 41 at best, the reason 125 has been a hole since Suriano left) but they seem to not last long in their starting line-up.
Individual mindset -- meaning do you have a "system" to teach to everybody on your team regardless of individual abilities or are you always open to learning, adapting, discovering new technique that benefits each specific individual. IMHO, the later is much more time consuming and difficult."
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Brady: it is alway said (joked about) its a fun environment or they have fun. What exactly makes it that?
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 10, 2021
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Rex, i'm not a coach nor a wrestler, just a writer but ive observed some great coaches over 30 years. All too old to wrestle but can definitely Teach and have the resume to prove it. Clinicians.
PAT MILKOVICH, 1X state champ worked and taught himself to be a 4X NCAA finalist. A Top/Bottom disciple, true believer, very savvy technician. Like u hes a critic.
JEFF BUXTON, former Blair Academy, now USAWR and Lehigh Valley Athletic Club. The master of motivation, hand fighting, tie ups, pummelling, holding position...teams were like Velcro on top. Refused to be pinned.
STEVE POWELL, former Easton PA legend, i quote him "Do Olympic Styles Benefit? What skills from the Olympic styles help a kid transition to college?
Steve Powell told me, “Commitment to the sport, commitment to be the best, commitment to become a better athlete, commitment to wrestle anyone, any style any time. Mat awareness. ....Hand Fighting, Hand Fighting & Hand Fighting. .....Match winners come down to the same basic moves to score. Especially singles, doubles & high crotches. What changes is how you get those singles, doubles & high crotches. .....You have to learn to stay in position, beat your opponent’s hands & lines of defense. You have to get better at finishing those basic moves. .....Freestyle especially teaches mat awareness.”
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
David Rourke added to this discussion on March 11, 2021
Last edited by David Rourke on March 25, 2021; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 11, 2021
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"Brady: it is always said (joked about) its a fun environment or they have fun. What exactly makes it that?"
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I can only comment based upon my few times taking kids to their camps and from the conversations I've had with some of their former wrestlers.
I wrote down these quotes,
"he doesn't run us to death"
"he encourages us to discover new techniques"
"wrestling isn't life, but we want to be great"
"he let's our bodies recover"
"I thought it was crazy that we played dodgeball for 2 hrs the week before the B1G tournament, but I lost 4 pounds that practice"
David Taylor talks a lot about focusing on "attitude and effort" and that is stressed there -- so the "fear of losing" is gone because the W and L isn't what's focused on but one's attitude going into, during, and after a match and the effort given going into, during, and after a match. So you know this is what he learned during his 5 years under Cael.
The football coach at the high school I graduated at (founded the program and has been it's only coach for over 50 years now) talked often about using praise vs criticism. When I asked them about that, they said the praise and positive criticism is almost all they hear.
As a side but related note: I remember hearing this quote from Cael about recruiting Nolf. "When I went to his HS room to recruit him, he never once looked my direction to see if I was watching him. He was to focused on wrestling. I knew he was the right guy for me." I thought that was an interesting insight. As Rex pointed out, they get special people in their room. I'd think this would be something that any coach should be looking for.
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 11, 2021
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on March 11, 2021
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"I'm special!"
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We’ve heard you’re an excellent driver and sometimes your father let’s you drive in the driveway....
(Thank you, Rex.)
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 11, 2021
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"I'm special!"
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1st thing I learned in my high school logic class was to "define your terms".
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Freddy Carr added to this discussion on March 12, 2021
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Quote from David Rourke's post:
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"It really hurt the Bucks program when Kyle left. And then to have Nato and Pletcher leave not too long after...OUCH! These departures left some BIG voids in the room with regards to senior level training partners for the Bucks. Add to that the fact that Logan is no longer training/competing, and probably not going hard if he is even wrestling with them due to his stated injuries. Unfortunately, all of them are the type of wrestlers to which Rex was referring. At least the upper weights Bucks still have Kollin and Myles around!
As for the staff, it's, no doubt, an incredible collect of very successful wrestlers! All have very different styles, none of which are very teachable/transferable to other styles. Jwas very unorthodox, that being said, it's pretty evident that it's working with Sasso! Bo, I believe, had a lot of his success as a result of his insane brute strength. However, when he faced high level opponents, like Hall and Zahid, there technique negated his strength. Tervel was a heavyweight that wrestled like a 184, much like Tommy. That style does work with the upper weights, but unfortuntely that current heavyweights in the room. AS for Tom, he was relentless, brutal, pressure with high energy! Sure, you can get stronger with a good weight training program, and you can be relentless/high energy with great conditioning, but those aren't techniques, those are mindsets. Just a thought..."
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Solid thread. And this post was thought-provoking IMO.
With regard to the program in general, I think Snyder’s departure was a huge impact event in the program’s trajectory.
And to the points about the composition of the staff and their respective specialties, not sure how to measure but I always felt Rosselli was a huge part of the program. I wonder the extent to which his departure has had an impact on things.
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Jack Muni added to this discussion on March 12, 2021
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I see Oklahoma just finished in a tie for Big 12 Championship. Lou has the team heading in the right direction.
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 13, 2021
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I think Lou is a great coach, but everything is relative. The Big 12 is not the Big Ten. It's weaker.
Just saying that a cellar dweller like MSU or Purdue that rights the ship and places mid conference is an equally comparable accomplishment.
A person's development is the cumulative effect of all things including coaching.
Young men still need to show up and compete.
Let's see how NCAAs go.
Those that are prepared and wrestle in the moment relative to their opponent will win.
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 26, 2021
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Seems like about 4 threads since this post come full circle back here.
Tervel is leaving. Myles is gone. Transfer portals. Ohio RTC on the decline.
Hank and/or Brady and I were talking about some of this over the past week since NCAAs. What is happening in the Buckeyes' room? Guy can't do any of the stuff Rex talks about and not developing it if they didn't arrive with it. One of the things that it seems like the Buckeyes room needs is coaches with the abilities Rex talks about and coaches with a different perspective than traditional B1G thinking.
The impact Dan Gable has had on the B1G is it's greatest strength, but maybe becoming it's downfall? The Buckeyes coaching staff, as it stands today, consists of guys that were developed in that room (and Coach Ralph is still there as far as I know, though I'm not sure if he is in the room everyday with his position?)
While the RTC absolutely needs another guy with the prowess of Lou Rosselli, the Buckeyes coaching staff also needs an injection of coaching from other successful coaches & programs that are not descendants of Dan Gable and his coaching & wrestling philosophy.
So, absolutely guys like Kyle Dake and David Taylor (assuming they have coaching abilities like Rex describes) are the types of guys the program needs.
Brady described spending time at camp at PSU and watching and listening to what Cael does with that program.
If you have never done so, take the time to listen to Rob Koll, his philosophy and what makes his room work. Heck his take on a swing single alone is worth listening too if you are a coach at any level.
How about a guy from the other OSU? John Smith has another style yet.
So, Rex, as per usual, hits it out of the park concerning what makes a coach and what doesn't. And from there diversity of thought becomes the next greatest strength for any kind of organization. That's what completes the picture for the diverse recruits coming into the program.
Sammy Sasso could be wrestling for Liberty and still basically be competing at the same level. There are wrestlers in the Buckeyes room right now, that are good. I mean on the podium good. Under, say, Rob Koll, they would be a title contender and much more complete.
A room with great coaches with diverse backgrounds would be ideal. Not sure if it's possible for the Buckeyes or not. I'm not sure about Jaggers, mostly because I just don't know him at all. I know how he wrestled, but that is about it. Bo has an incredible pedigree, but he is fresh out of this program. I'm sure Logan will take the job to replace Tervel if offered. Frankly, I have no idea what kind of coach Logan is, but he has been in that room and I don't see anyone there riding like he did.
It's true, a wrestler only has their own experiences to work with. A great coaching staff can connect with each wrestler and motivate them to train in a specific task oriented fashion that addresses their personal deficiencies and it must also get them to ask, every day, "What is it I can learn today that I didn't know I didn't know yesterday?"
By and large, I think the guys on the team and the incoming recruits are pretty coachable. They need the resources to release the full potential of the styles they have and the challenge to expand upon them. It does not look like that is what is happening for the wrestlers in Columbus from top to bottom. I hope they can find the balance.
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 26, 2021
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[quote="Patrick Campbell”] Sammy Sasso could be wrestling for Liberty and still basically be competing at the same level.[/quote]
Fact Check: False
...Liberty dropped their program. Twice. 1st time personally hurt. 2nd time was the insult to add to the injury.
But if they did have a program, Sammy could contend for a title from in their singlet.
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 26, 2021
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"[quote="Patrick Campbell”] Sammy Sasso could be wrestling for Liberty and still basically be competing at the same level."
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Fact Check: False
...Liberty dropped their program. Twice. 1st time personally hurt. 2nd time was the insult to add to the injury.
But if they did have a program, Sammy could contend for a title from in their singlet.[/quote]
You remain so easily baited. Knew you would appreciate that :-D
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 26, 2021
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"Brady: it is alway said (joked about) its a fun environment or they have fun. What exactly makes it that?"
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It’s fun to create. To plan. To dissect. To discover. Cael, Casey, & Cody have that atmosphere.
These things are fun for me still in wrestling. Working in my room to discover new ways to score from defense and top right now using the same technique. Having a blast.
For everybody else, what would make wrestling “fun” for you?
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Discussion Topic: Why so bad off bottom? No offense on the feet? No top game.
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on March 31, 2021
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Coach Ryan on Q&A mentioned the following.
125 Malik
133 Echemendia/Portal
141 D’emillo/Ech
149 Sasso
157 Gallagher/Portal
165 Carson
174 Smith
184 Romero
197 Jordan/Hoffman
285 Tate O
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