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Discussion Topic: Mendez v Bouzakis
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on June 13, 2022
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Mendes already has freestyle win over all Americans McKee and cannon. Bouzakis may be even better. I know this is folk style but if I had to bet the winner of this wrestle off will be an all American. If the staff has some doubt that they can’t all American it is an absolute waste of a year. Let them develop more and the seniors graduate. May not be decided until after a few opens.
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Discussion Topic: Mendez v Bouzakis
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 13, 2022
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Nick: I love your passion and am certain that whoever starts will be a competitve D1 wrestler. College folk, however, is always an adjustment. In my opinion, the starter will likely be in the mix to AA.
My two cents...I'd start the guy with the more obvious mat skills. In particular, I'd want the starter to be the guy who's clearly better on bottom. If this distinction doesn't exist then may the better man win the spot.
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Discussion Topic: Mendez v Bouzakis
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on June 13, 2022
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You are right college is always an adjustment. This staff needs to make certain one is at an AA level immediately or it is a waste of a redshirt. Luke pletcher is a perfect exaample. Wasted a national championship year for a year he went 2-2 at ncaas. A kid is 95 percent of the time going to score more as a 5th year than a first year. Malik’s heinselmann also is a good example. If I was coaching everyone would redshirt including Malik. Cael hardly ever wrestled a true freshman. Kilkeary has way too many losses to be big ten ready in two years. That is going to be a major hole unless we figure out through another recruit transfer portal. Everyone is wrestling for second and it’s not going to be close this year. In two years Ohio state could close the gap significantly at least. Penn state holds the keys for success. They redshirt greyshirt whatever it takes. Ohio state is in too much of a hurry. The thing is Ohio state actually does have a chance for second with about 5 other teams so they will probably pull one redshirt at 133.
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Discussion Topic: Mendez v Bouzakis
Brian Mathews added to this discussion on June 14, 2022
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"Mendes already has freestyle win over all Americans McKee and cannon. Bouzakis may be even better. I know this is folk style but if I had to bet the winner of this wrestle off will be an all American. If the staff has some doubt that they can’t all American it is an absolute waste of a year. Let them develop more and the seniors graduate. May not be decided until after a few opens."
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It's a dangerous game using freestyle wins to project folkstyle results. This happens every year. Last year Carter Young beat Nashon Garrett and Tyler Graff in the same tournament, then went 12-9 on the season and 0-2 at NCAAs.
I'm not predicting that for Mendez or Bouzakis... I think either would be in the mix to AA. But there's also a good chance you end up with a disappointing season.
If the only reason to start one of them is to "put the best team on the mat," then I would consider it a mistake to not redshirt both.
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Discussion Topic: Mendez v Bouzakis
Drew Taylor added to this discussion on June 14, 2022
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Nick, Luke Pletcher very well may have won a national title but for Covid. It was him or Nick Lee.
He earned AA honors as a sophomore. He might not do that if not for the experience he earned the year before. As an aside, if memory serves, there was little choice but to wrestle Pletcher as a freshman after the expected 141 went down with an injury.
I’m in favor of wrestling someone out of the gates assuming they are physically prepared for the grind. They’ll take some losses but be fine by March. Five years in a college program is a long time. Bodies and minds wear down.
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Discussion Topic: Mendez v Bouzakis
Don Bork added to this discussion on June 14, 2022
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Based on Tom Ryan’s history I would expect (hope) that neither will be in the lineup immediately. No need to burn the redshirt until we see them at a few Opens. Gonzales can man the spot at 133 until we have a good reading on where each of them stands. I would agree that unless one of them is a legitimate AA then you may as well keep them in redshirt.
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Discussion Topic: Mendez v Bouzakis
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on June 14, 2022
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Dan yea unless they are beating top 10-15 guys in opens convincingly it is wasting a year. Pletcher got two years stolen from a title. One from COVID the other bc the staff made him wrestle prematurely without a redshirt that he could be in the mix for another. By the looks of these two one will be ready as the “experts” have predicted and we will see who is the better folk style wrestler. If neither can show evidence redshirt both. It’s penn state by a mile. Two guys may need a torn acl for anyone to have a chance. Don’t mortgage the future for today.
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Discussion Topic: Mendez v Bouzakis
Brian Mathews added to this discussion on June 14, 2022
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Pletcher wrestling in 2017 was a different situation. He was being added to a lineup that was already set up to challenge for NCAA titles. That team had 3 individual NCAA champions on it, plus Micah, Bo and Kollin. They ultimately fell a little short (really, Penn State reached astronomical heights), but did come away with a Big 10 title that year. The fact that Pletcher sacrificed a little personally didn't inhibit the team from title winning chances, because they were already in their title window.
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Discussion Topic: Mendez v Bouzakis
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on June 14, 2022
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Pletcher 1.5 points or pletcher 20+ points. It’s selfish by the staff in my opinion
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Discussion Topic: Mendez v Bouzakis
Alex Creech added to this discussion on June 14, 2022
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I just don't understand how getting a year of experience wrestling a big ten schedule could ever be considered wasted time.
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Discussion Topic: Mendez v Bouzakis
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on June 14, 2022
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"Pletcher 1.5 points or pletcher 20+ points. It’s selfish by the staff in my opinion"
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So you think they force kids to wrestle and don’t give them any say in the matter?
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Discussion Topic: Mendez v Bouzakis
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on June 15, 2022
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Selfish is the wrong word. I am sure pletcher had a word in it. But it in my opinion unless you are scoring big points as in mid level all American they should develop in the room and through opens. Pletcher and Malik were not at that level as freshman. 1 or 2 points rarely factors in team races where as 10 or more is huge. Malik wasn’t even close to being physically developed that year also. Snyder and Myles Martin were ready. The staff got it right with paddy last year as there was no evidence he was close to being an AA even though he was probably our best option at 157. I just hope neither bouzakis or Mendes burns a redshirt unless they are proven to be at that mid level all American spot. Maybe wait and let them wrestle midlands or something as an open entry and have that kind of competition to gauge them. It is going to be tempting I understand because Ohio state will have a legitimate shot at second place. If you put one of them in at 133 and paddy at 157 your two weak weight classes get significantly better from last year and the other 8 NCAA qualifiers all return. Everyone loses a lot from last year with all those super seniors except penn state.
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Discussion Topic: Mendez v Bouzakis
Drew Taylor added to this discussion on June 15, 2022
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Nick, we need to stop thinking that the only event that matters is the NCAA tournament. Big 10 duals and the conference tournament are also hugely important. Pletcher was an asset as a freshman.
Also, I disagree that 95 percent of competitors score higher in year five than they would in year one. It’s not that dramatic. Just on Ohio State, we can point to Myles Martin as an exception. And Bo Jordan and Nate Tomasello were lower on the podium as fifth year seniors than as redshirt freshmen.
Tom Ryan has an obligation to field the best lineup possible with few exceptions.
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Discussion Topic: Mendez v Bouzakis
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on June 15, 2022
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I guess that is the difference between Ohio state thinking and penn state. Penn state has not won the big ten tourney many times during this run. Ohio state has got some , Michigan , Iowa. But what everyone remembers is the NCAA championships. Sure it’s nice to get dual wins and big ten tourney titles. But when you look back at a season what the end goal that everyone remembers is the NCAA team title. I can tell you right now out of the last ten years without even looking it’s penn state 8. Ohio state 1, iowa 1. That is what people remember. I can’t tell you year by year duals or big ten championships. I know penn state probably has around 5 in that period. Yes bo jordan and Myles Martin are outliers. Bo jordan dealt with injuries. He was clearly not the same wrestler. Myles Martin was a lot better as a senior also. He had one slip up in the semis but he was clearly clearly a better wrestler than anyone in the nation his senior year. He beat the guy 13-6 a couple weeks earlier that he lost in the semis. He had 8 losses or so his freshman year and finished higher but was not a better wrestler. And if you say duals and big ten championships are important Myles didn’t lose a dual or a big ten championship as a senior like he did freshman year so that contradicts your point. And tomasello ran into one of the greatest wrestlers in NCAA history. Tomasello did redshirt however.He was being unselfish for the team. Could have won it at 133. You can’t predict injuries but you can project they will get better every single year in most occasions. Four year later they are gonna better than a true freshman 95 percent of the time I still stick to. Bo Jordan is the one that wasn’t. The rest absolutely are. Having Spencer lee in the finals is different than Zeke moisey who went on a miracle run. I have no problem with Myles redshirt being pulled. He proved he was capable and did it. If bouzakis or Mendes can prove they are top 5 I am in favor of pulling it. If they are too 15 or so you my as well let them redshirt both. They both very well may be all I’m saying is let them beat some quality guys to gauge themselves and not just pull the redshirt day one. Mid season pull after results is the route I hope they take
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Discussion Topic: Mendez v Bouzakis
Don Bork added to this discussion on June 15, 2022
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Football players are often asked to switch positions due to roster makeup, injuries, relative strength or weakness of position groups etc. EJ Liddell at 6 foot 7 was asked to guard centers at 6-10 to over 7 feet due to roster makeup. These decisions are made because the coaches are very well paid and expected to produce at a high level. Same is true for Tom Ryan. Decisions have to be made based on the available roster and health of those on it. Not easy decisions, but you can bet there is a lot of pressure to produce at a high level. I have no doubt that when Luke Pletcher was asked if he would move up a weight to fill in for the injured expected starter, he was not forced and embraced the challenge and did so not just for himself, but to be there for the TEAM. Wrestling is very much an individual sport, but the TEAM dynamic can not be ignored.
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