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Discussion Topic: The future of Ohio state wrestling
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on December 22, 2022
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I understand Tom is an iowa guy. He trained there 30 years ago. The way they train today I’m sure is vastly different. I want young blood in the room. Thinking like a guy like nolf, metcalf, maybe even a Dustin schlatter. Just someone outside of a Tom Ryan trained guy as assistants.
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"...get a penn state guy, an iowa guy, just some guys outside the program. And a coach for the upper weights also. Let them bring their culture and training methods along with them. "
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Tom is an Iowa guy.
Look at Iowa Staff. ISU Staff. OkSt Staff. I'm almost positive they are competed for the same university (not THE same, but all on staff were from same school)."
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Discussion Topic: The future of Ohio state wrestling
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on December 22, 2022
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"I understand Tom is an iowa guy. He trained there 30 years ago. The way they train today I’m sure is vastly different. I want young blood in the room. Thinking like a guy like nolf, metcalf, maybe even a Dustin schlatter. Just someone outside of a Tom Ryan trained guy as assistants.
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"...get a penn state guy, an iowa guy, just some guys outside the program. And a coach for the upper weights also. Let them bring their culture and training methods along with them. "
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Tom is an Iowa guy.
Look at Iowa Staff. ISU Staff. OkSt Staff. I'm almost positive they are competed for the same university (not THE same, but all on staff were from same school)."
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"
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Did Ryan coach Jaggers? I do agree a young outsider would be a good addition. Funny we are complaining a 4x NC, 2x NC and 4x AA needs some help.
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Discussion Topic: The future of Ohio state wrestling
Joe Kinzel added to this discussion on December 22, 2022
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How about finding an assistant that can coach a wrestler how to escape from the bottom position?
If memory serves me correctly, there were grumblings about the team/staff prior to the 2015 tournament when we won a national championship.
I am not sure a change at HC is necessary but I can't disagree that there needs to be a change somewhere. David Taylor on staff when he is finished competing sounds very intriguing.
I think the ORTC is in need of someone/something to spark some excitement.
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Discussion Topic: The future of Ohio state wrestling
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on December 22, 2022
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Yes jaggers was in the transition stages between hellickson and Ryan. He won his national championships under Ryan.
David Taylor is the top of my list as a replacement. No way he comes to Ohio state without being head coach. Im sure penn state would love to have him on as an assistant. Probably the best technical wrestler there is. I can see him having a meteoric rise wherever he goes if he does end up coaching. Kids these days grew up idolizing guys like him and will draw in recruits wherever he goes. Great mat wrestler also which Burroughs was always more of a neutral. I’m guessing this will be dake, Burroughs, and Taylor last Olympic cycle. I think all will make great college coaches. I hope a youth movement comes in this sport and shakes up some things in college in next few years.
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Discussion Topic: The future of Ohio state wrestling
Alex Creech added to this discussion on December 22, 2022
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Gene Smith is smart enough not to hire someone with no head coaching experience, or any coaching experience for that matter. David Taylor isn't happening.
They already have a young, idolized wrestler on the staff with more folkstyle wrestling credentials and more coaching experience.
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Discussion Topic: The future of Ohio state wrestling
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on December 22, 2022
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Quote from Alex Creech's post:
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"Gene Smith is smart enough not to hire someone with no head coaching experience, or any coaching experience for that matter. David Taylor isn't happening.
They already have a young, idolized wrestler on the staff with more folkstyle wrestling credentials and more coaching experience."
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You are, IMHO, correct.
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Discussion Topic: The future of Ohio state wrestling
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on December 22, 2022
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Yes I agree with you. This is my wish list. If anyone thinks Taylor wouldn’t make a absolutely great coach I can almost assure you he will one day when the time comes. Gene smith will go with a proven head coach if a change is made. Taylor will not be the next head coach but if I could choose someone that is who it would be. Young head coach, who the recruits grew up watching, that is absolutely masterful in technique. No one works harder than David Taylor also I can almost assure you that. More than likely he is going to go after a dresser or Doug Schwab type. But if Burroughs was available even with no coaching experience I don’t think even a gene smith would turn him down.
If Tom Ryan has to go then the staff has to go as well also. Doesn’t matter who is the top guy. If they can’t get it done as a collective group then they shouldn’t promote the assistant. I have no evidence of Logan making this team any better. I see no evidence of anyone on this team improving excpet maybe hepner from last year.
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Discussion Topic: The future of Ohio state wrestling
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on December 22, 2022
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If we are talking about guys to add once they're through competing, I'd think about Kyle Snyder, Jordan Burroughs, David Taylor or Kyle Dake. Ohio State has extraordinary potential and any one of those four would be intriguing.
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Discussion Topic: The future of Ohio state wrestling
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on December 22, 2022
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"Wrestling is an individual sport with a team element.
I get the frustration with some of the perceived lack of development. It always comes back to; is the wrestler able to create and score with quality attacks against top tier opponents.
Development occurs when details of an individual's wrestling are addressed and improved upon.
Basically, take what the person does and make it better.
Again, you have to speak the same language and connect the dots. Otherwise, SSDD.
Hence, that feeling you get when watching someone compete and they are so set in their pattern that nothing has changed. It feels like Groundhog's Day and you end up writing to a forum as therapy because you bled it out at one time. But, at the same time you're not connected to performance and outcome and it's not your problem."
Rex articulates this solution (or some variation) consistently on various threads, every year there is a concern about the Bucks.
My question: Can an experienced, successful coach change the way he coaches in accordance with the above?
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Discussion Topic: The future of Ohio state wrestling
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on December 22, 2022
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"I understand Tom is an iowa guy. He trained there 30 years ago. The way they train today I’m sure is vastly different."
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Tom and Tom were teammates. You think the two train their teams differently now? I'd take that bet.
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Discussion Topic: The future of Ohio state wrestling
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on December 22, 2022
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Quote from Justin Hayes's post:
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" My question: Can an experienced, successful coach change the way he coaches in accordance with the above?"
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Not without taking a few steps backwards before forward progress can be made. See Tiger Woods changing his swing post 2001. My $0.02
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Discussion Topic: The future of Ohio state wrestling
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on December 22, 2022
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Absolutely lol. This isn’t even a debate. Iowa mentality. Desantos, ramos,metcalf. This is widely known they have different mindsets and perspectives. Tom would never train a kid like they do in Iowa. aren’tquote="Brady Hiatt"]
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"I understand Tom is an iowa guy. He trained there 30 years ago. The way they train today I’m sure is vastly different."
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Tom and Tom were teammates. You think the two train their teams differently now? I'd take that bet.[/quote]
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Discussion Topic: The future of Ohio state wrestling
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on December 23, 2022
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"Absolutely lol. This isn’t even a debate. Iowa mentality. Desantos, ramos,metcalf. This is widely known they have different mindsets and perspectives. Tom would never train a kid like they do in Iowa. aren’tquote="Brady Hiatt"]
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"I understand Tom is an iowa guy. He trained there 30 years ago. The way they train today I’m sure is vastly different."
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Tom and Tom were teammates. You think the two train their teams differently now? I'd take that bet."
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[/quote]
How they train and the antics allowed are two different things.
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Discussion Topic: The future of Ohio state wrestling
Jared Ball added to this discussion on December 23, 2022
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Tom Ryan is the greatest wrestling coach in the history of Ohio State University. He will determine when he is done, and based on his age and state employee retirement age requirements he likely has another couple of years to go.
When you’re successful the people you surround yourself with will likely move on and up to other positions. Being a successful wrestler does not guarantee that a person will be a successful recruiter, administrator, fundraiser, etc. Even successful assistant coaches don’t always translate to great head coaches.
I would think that the staff is equally in line with a lot of the opinions expressed on this board in terms of unsatisfactory performance this year and in recent years. Ohio State has out performed every other program in the recruiting department during TR’s tenure. Through the course of his tenure guys have been brought in, developed, and become champions. In many cases guys have exceeded expectations..Kollin, Pucillo, Tomasello, Mymar, etc. Others have not: Courts, Decaturs, Camp…, etc. Development dictates success. I do think it’s a fair criticism to question the ability of the staff to develop the last couple of recruits. There have been misses and derailments. Everyone on the team is better than when they came in, but many have not risen to the level we have expected in recent years. Malik is good, but has not made the jump we thought he would. Same with D’Emilio, Decatur, etc. Sammy and Hoffman were both blue chip, top ten recruits. I think it’s fair to say that Hoffman (even with last years AA)
Has fallen short of expectations. Sammy has been the most consistent performer on the team and has been within earshot of a title. I do think he has plateaued though. Carson has been derailed due to injury. I think you could make an argument that they have done a good job developing guys like Smith (who should be a two time AA IMO), Romero, etc. The post Kyle Snyder era has been a break even experience. Since Kollin and Pletcher we haven’t seen title contenders on this roster, and it’s unlikely to emerge this year as well. I think that’s the biggest differentiator. If Ohio State finishes a third consecutive lackluster performance at NCAAs, and fails to show vast improvement with this freshman class next year I think you see some staff shakeup. Until then time will tell
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Discussion Topic: The future of Ohio state wrestling
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on December 23, 2022
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Tom Ryan is the best coach in Ohio state history and there is no doubt about that. I am not saying he should be fired but there needs to be an evaluation after next season at least. If these redshirts along with possibly welsh preform great next year and live up to expectations we can forget about this conversation bc it’s going to be four really good years in a row. Which can definitely be done. If these new group of guys end up falling short of expectations then you need to make changes. Recruits will see the lack of development and can hurt the program significantly unless staff changes are made. I was just saying if you had your choice of someone to bring in who would it be out of curiosity. Ohio state is at this point maybe the second or third best job in all of college wrestling so I think Ohio state can hand pick who they want excpet for Cael. (I don’t think we would be interested in the brands but they aren’t leaving anyway) So Ohio state will always be in a great position with the money and facilities they have to get any coach they want almost.
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