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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 14, 2023
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to paraphrase a line from A Few Good Men: "You want FACTS, I'll give you facts. You want me on that wall. You need me on that wall ....."
i deal with facts every year after NCAA tourn. From April 2022 AWN column:
“The fight is here. I asked for ammunition, not a ride.” – Ukraine President Zelensky responding to American offer to evacuate him.
The Top States Overall?
Following NCAA this column likes to look at which are the strongest states based quite a bit on the number of NCAA division I qualifiers and All-Americans from each state. Fargo is important. In season and out of season high school folkstyle events like Super 32 counts a lot. I go back and look at recent years trends.
Starting in 2019, let’s look at the number of NCAA qualifiers by home state the last four years Pennsylvania led as usual with an enormous number 53. NJ and Ohio had 24 each, then came Illinois with 22; Michigan with 19; California and New York 18 each, Missouri with 14, Colorado, Iowa and Georgia with 12 each; Minnesota and Oklahoma 11, and Indiana 10.
Year 2020 we had no NCAA tournament due to Covid but the qualifier numbers tell us the same states dominate. Pennsylvania with 48, Ohio 31, Illinois 28, New Jersey 23, California 19, New York and Michigan 17, Minnesota 16, Iowa and Indiana 13.
NCAA Qual Home State Totals 2021
Pennsylvania 50
Illinois 28
Ohio 27
California 24
New Jersey 19
New York 16
Iowa 14
Indiana 13
Michigan 13
Missouri 12
Georgia 11
Minnesota 11
Colorado 9
Wisconsin 8
Oklahoma 7
Florida 6
Kansas 6
Virginia 6
NCAA Qual Home State Totals 2022
Pennsylvania 45
Illinois 32
New Jersey 30
Ohio 22
California 17
Michigan 17
New York 15
Minnesota 14
Iowa 13
Colorado 11
Florida 11
Indiana 11
Oklahoma 9
Missouri 8
Virginia 8
Georgia 7
Kansas 7
Wisconsin 7
N. Carolina 5
Arizona 4
2021 AA’s
Pennsylvania again took the measure of the field at last years 2021 NCAA tournament in St. Louis. Numbers of college All-Americans tell the story and here are the figures. Pa 17 , Ill 6, Ind 5- Cal, Mich, Minn, Mo, NJ, Ohio all with 4 each. NY, Va, Wisc, all with 3 each. Az, Colo, Iowa, Okla all with 2 each. Ala, Fla, Ga, Id, Md, NC ND, Tx, Utah all with 1 each. That year’s gap between Pennsylvania and the field was the largest I can recall.
2022 AA’s
This just in at deadline, courtesy both Jason Bryant of Mat Talk Online and Rob Sherrill of WIN. The top four states imo stay the top 4 in order of AA’s:
PA - 12
IL - 9 (record for them)
NJ, OH - 7
MN - 5
CA, CO, MI, NY, WI - 4
IN - 3
AZ, FL, MO, NC, OK - 2
IA, ID, KS, MD, WA, WV – 1
(Cuba 1 Bastida)
Illinois Dominates Fargo
In the Olympic styles clearly it was Illinois completely first taking charge in 2017, 2018 & 2019. In 2013 Illinois became the first and only state to win all four tournaments in the team standings. The Land of Lincoln state won all four tournaments by double digits. The Illinois dominance in the Olympic styles has currently lasted over a decade and a half.
Fargo 2021 proved much had not changed. Illinois was the top state in the marquis Olympic Junior men’s freestyle event; and has been for a decade and a half. Year 2021 proved no different as Illinois won both Junior freestyle and Greco-Roman. Junior Freestyle 1 – Illinois (130), 2 – Pennsylvania (111), 3 – Michigan (107), 4 – Wisconsin (103), 5 – Iowa (98), 6 – Indiana (95), 7 – Ohio (87), 8 – Minnesota (80), 9 – Oklahoma (79), 10 – New Jersey (72), 11 – California (68). Illinois added the Fargo Greco-Roman event to its resume in 2021. 1 Illinois 169, 2 -California 123, 3 - Wisconsin 118,4 - Colorado 114,5 - Iowa 90
Illinois Surges to No. 2 Best State
Last year lllinois surged past Ohio to take over as the No. 2 best boy’s state in my poll. If their number of college AAs and qualifiers continue to move up they could actually challenge Pennsylvania for No. 1. But we aren’t there yet. Pennsylvania still No. 1 overall because their kids dominate in high school and college folkstyle; and do very well in the summer Olympic styles though not up to Illinois level.
Best States
Overall this is how I rank them right now following NCAA 2022. Going way back in years the three dominating states were Pennsylvania, Iowa and Oklahoma. Today there are more strong states. There is some subjectivity on my part, but a minimum I hope. Your opinion is welcome and if informative I will print it. Ohio, Iowa and NJ are in a scramble for No. 3.
1 Pennsylvania
2 Illinois
3 Ohio
4 New Jersey
5 Iowa
6 California
7 Minnesota
8 Michigan
9 Oklahoma
10 New York
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on March 14, 2023
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Mr. Preusse...All of those stats are interesting for sure, but not surprising. And I'm not sure whose point they bolster. Does it show Ohio high school wrestling has taken a step back? Sure. But does it sow a monumental drop off? It doesn't seem to. It seems Ohio went from the second best state in the union to the third. And these are the dark days of Ohio high school wrestling? Personally, I don't think Ohio has been the second best state in a very long time. And even then, it wasn't consistently so. Arguments could always be made for this state or that state taking second to PA.
My only real contribution to the topic was to say that I think, when it's all said and done, this St. Edward squad will be regarded as a very good team, filled with wrestlers who are successful at the next level.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 14, 2023
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Mike, call me Bob--
yes i agree ohio still elite, but trend is worrisome. As Hank and James Kessen have said in the 90s (& before) ohio challenged PA. Every year Galbincea, Dan Fickel and i would travel to Pittsburgh for the NHSCA Senior Nationals. To be blunt, Ohio and California dominated, and the PA crowd hated it, in their own back yard especially......
When Sr Nationals moved to Cleveland for 5 years or so, same story, Ohio and Calif. Then the Cleveland Referees Assn had dispute with tourn honcho Bob Ferraro, and he moved it.....but imo i agree with Kessen, Sr Ntls in those days was tougher than Super 32 and much tougher than today when it is in Virginia Beach.
A funny aside to James Kessen--- Randy Glover the Coventry coach invited media to his Sr Ntls camp in 1996. i don't remember the wrestling as much as i recall the FOOOOOD !
What a layout, steaks, fried chicken, fresh strawberry shortcake, pies, potato salad, homemade dishes too. ..
i do recall thinking the irony of it all. Of course the kids at the camp were being tortured, but the media loves to pig down. Alot of guys moved up a wt, the buffet was open to them too..
1996 may have been one of Ohio's 5 champ years?? Anthony Gary, Musser, Jim Johnson, the 285 from Teays Valley and Sam Krider (sp? the 171 from St Eds), all champs....ohio was a BEAST back then, then something changed a decade ago.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 14, 2023
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"My only real contribution to the topic was to say that I think, when it's all said and done, this St. Edward squad will be regarded as a very good team, filled with wrestlers who are successful at the next level."
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You are right and wrong (I think) because this St Ed's team will be regarded as a great team. :)
Why no bitter-runnerup in our NCAA Pick'em Contest?
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 14, 2023
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Robert Sessley was a 3x AA.
Tommy Rowlands was OHST’s first 4x AA. (And don’t you forget it!) Ffollowed by Lance Palmer, and then a handful of others, to include 4x National Champion Logan Stieber.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 14, 2023
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Mark: Thanks for the correction on Sessely.
Rex--Excellent insight on how a handful of teams are dominating in D1 in an extraordinary way.
What guys like Bob and I recall is the days when the Mentor District (and Firestone in D2) were ferocious proving grounds because so many teams had their share of tough kids. That's no longer the case. It's mostly haves and have nots. There is not much of a middle class.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 14, 2023
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"That's no longer the case. It's mostly haves and have nots. There is not much of a middle class."
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The world of specialization.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on March 14, 2023
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"
When Sr Nationals moved to Cleveland for 5 years or so, same story, Ohio and Calif. Then the Cleveland Referees Assn had dispute with tourn honcho Bob Ferraro, and he moved it....
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Some perspective on that from someone who was involved.
The pay was lousy, the hours were long, he treated us like crap, our lunch/dinner was a hot dog, chips, and a Coke (great fueling) and we had to pay for parking. He didn't want to budge on making things right so we all walked.
The wrestling was great and I am sure everyone was glad they did it but the conditions got old real fast.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 15, 2023
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This, "That's no longer the case. It's mostly haves and have nots. There is not much of a middle class."
"The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer," which happened to be provided by same source as factoid.
Every time I see Robert Sessley, I tell him that he is one in a million. I don't know that he fully appreciates what he did. State Champion from City League School, Beechcroft, that became 3x NCAA All American at tOSU. Aptitude off the chart.
If he grows up at Burnett's, I don't know what his ceiling is.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 15, 2023
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"
When Sr Nationals moved to Cleveland for 5 years or so, same story, Ohio and Calif. Then the Cleveland Referees Assn had dispute with tourn honcho Bob Ferraro, and he moved it....
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Some perspective on that from someone who was involved.
The pay was lousy, the hours were long, he treated us like crap, our lunch/dinner was a hot dog, chips, and a Coke (great fueling) and we had to pay for parking. "
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a coke, hot dog & chips, so whats to complain about? sounds like my usual lunch. .. as a media member, i guess we are like the Refs, we too judge a tourn by its hospitality room, lol. ..
Top Gun used to be the best. Ironically for NCAA Iowa was the worst. NHSCA was fairly good to media. Ferraro would invite us to his hotel suite fora keg of beer afterwards. i enjoyed the opportunity to bask in how well Ohio had done again. The PA guys hated that...i miss those halcyon NHSCA days.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Matt Schein added to this discussion on March 16, 2023
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Did Robert Sessley not start wrestling until his freshman year?
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Ben Golden added to this discussion on March 16, 2023
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Is David Carr the last great Ohio prepper? Are we done being relevant once be graduates?
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Alex Creech added to this discussion on March 16, 2023
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Quote from Ben Golden's post:
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"Is David Carr the last great Ohio prepper? Are we done being relevant once be graduates?"
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no
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 16, 2023
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Quote from Alex Creech's post:
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"
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Quote from Ben Golden's post:
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"Is David Carr the last great Ohio prepper? Are we done being relevant once be graduates?"
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no"
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Correct take.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio High School Wrestling Has Diminished
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 17, 2023
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Not sure when Robert Sessley started wrestling. Probably asked a long time ago and forgot. I remember him saying that his cousin was David McCampbell, a similar sized wrestler at the same time for Franklin Heights that was state placer. So, he might have had family influence beyond school.
I taught a clinic at Beechcroft when he was maybe a sophomore. I noticed he was athletic and technical. Plus, they had the Central District rankings in the Dispatch and he matched up against a wrestler in my club.
They practiced in the cafeteria and rolled out the mats. Did'nt fill all the weights. The program was'nt a powerhouse.
I watched his state championship performance and he was calm and collected like he knew he was going to win.
It's the same disposition you see out of how high-level performers.
That outward expression sometimes is a clue as to their internal environment.
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