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Discussion Topic: Cannon and D'Augustino commit to UM
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on May 2, 2023
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Alex that is exactly what Tom Ryan complained about. He said he basically knows that teams are cheating but can spend his time and resources off better than trying to prove it. This nil has a very gray line and stricter rules need enforced.
Say I have an extra 100k laying around. Can I just write to Keegan o toole or David carr for example. Hey come to Ohio state and I will give you this much money. I have no affiliation with the school, just a fan. I mean is the kid not allowed to accept that. The school can’t be punished bc I have no affiliation can they? I mean I have no idea just hypothetically what is the rule on that?
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Discussion Topic: Cannon and D'Augustino commit to UM
Ben Golden added to this discussion on May 2, 2023
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I'll tell you what's tough for me to wrap my mind around...
I'm not a booster or an Ohio RTC donor or what not. I respect those who are. I'm also not wealthy enough to be considering giving out hundreds of thousands of dollars of NIL money, and perhaps my outlook would be different if I were.
As a fan, I expect the program to be doing things to fund the program in a manner that's competitive with the best programs out there. However, as an individual, I can't imagine paying hundreds of thousands of dollars directly to an individual college student to wrestle at my school. Giving to a university or a program or the Ohio RTC... that's an investment in a program.
But for me to be paying a huge "salary" directly to some kid I have no connection to just so he competes for my school for a year... I can't imagine doing that, even if I had the money to do so. These are teenagers or early 20s with little no responsibilities.
Now, if I run a business and their NIL brings in enough incremental profit that it's worth it to do so, that's a different story, but there's no way these wrestlers' NIL would have the implicit value of the amounts being rumored.
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Discussion Topic: Cannon and D'Augustino commit to UM
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on May 2, 2023
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Do you think any business is going to profit off of nil from wrestling? No they won’t. It is not mainstream enough. Traux worth 250k for a year. Woods and Suriano 6 figures each. Unless you are Rudia and a Olympic champ Burroughs or Kyle snyder type getting a shoe deal.
They may be passionate business owners who really want their team to succeed in most cases im guessing. Iowa and penn state have that kind of fan base where they would write a check for a championship. Anyway if I hit the powerball I may get Ohio state a guy or two in the future lol.
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Discussion Topic: Cannon and D'Augustino commit to UM
Roe Fox added to this discussion on May 2, 2023
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I personally find the whole thing troubling. Paying athletes who make money for the schools needed to be done in some fashion but this just creates a greater competitive imbalance.
Everyone can theoretically do it but only the exceptionally few can. People can start hating Cael (I don’t, by the way) like Steinbrenner and the Yankees. But buying Championships is, to me, not real competition.
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Discussion Topic: Cannon and D'Augustino commit to UM
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on May 2, 2023
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Michigan is a finalist for Shane Griffith along with Iowa and Rutgers.
Michigan going pay for another 2nd place trophy?
Brought in Suriano (heard he got 100k) and I’m curious if they paid Amine, Massa, and Micic to come back.
Does buying a team trophy with proven fill in transfers make someone a good coach?
That is not a knock on Michigan coach because I think he is a good coach.
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Discussion Topic: Cannon and D'Augustino commit to UM
Jared Ball added to this discussion on May 3, 2023
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How frequently do transfers, or these NIL guys actually provide a positive return on investment? It’s newer, but off the top of my head I think of Suriano and Max Dean in recent years actually equating to titles. Joey McKenna is probably the only OSU guy that comes to mind. Without looking at some sort of data Im guessing that things seldom workout to the level at which people hope they do. Is Cannon really that big of an upgrade over Ragusin? No. These Northwestern guys are not going to be the difference between Michigan being in the hunt for a trophy. They have no title contenders. If programs choose to go after a Real Woods or Bernie Truax they forfeit on someone else. I’m just not sure there is going to be a ton of evidence that supports that this is a better way to win. In the end I think programs will regress back to the mean. They’ll find out that the financial investment isn’t worth it.
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Discussion Topic: Cannon and D'Augustino commit to UM
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on May 3, 2023
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Shane Griffith has narrowed his choices to Iowa, Michigan and Rutgers. Both Iowa and Michigan have tough 165's (Amine and Kennedy). I'm sure there's a plan in place but could one of those guys decide to transfer out if Griffith transfers in? Rutgers just needs help.
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Discussion Topic: Cannon and D'Augustino commit to UM
Rob Wagner added to this discussion on May 3, 2023
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I'm thinking Griffith will be at 174 next season.
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Shane Griffith has narrowed his choices to Iowa, Michigan and Rutgers. Both Iowa and Michigan have tough 165's (Amine and Kennedy). I'm sure there's a plan in place but could one of those guys decide to transfer out if Griffith transfers in? Rutgers just needs help."
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Discussion Topic: Cannon and D'Augustino commit to UM
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on May 3, 2023
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Jared Joey McKenna was pre nil. Ohio state has landed zero since nil began two seasons ago. Michigan Iowa and penn state seem to be in the running for all the big free agents since then.
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Discussion Topic: Cannon and D'Augustino commit to UM
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on May 3, 2023
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Fascinating discussion. Ben Golden makes some excellent points but if I had boatloads of cash I might reach out to Josh Moore to talk about Cleveland State. It's ego. I can make the program more relevant and feel important. This works if you care about wrestling of course.
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Discussion Topic: Cannon and D'Augustino commit to UM
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on May 3, 2023
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I'd be happy to continue to root for OSU if they focus NIL efforts on recruiting and talent development. The 1 year rentals do nothing for me as a fan.
I understand the pressure to win at the highest level of college sports, but if Coach Ryan continues to produce top-5 teams with the talent that he recruited and developed, to me as a fan that would be more meaningful than UM placing second starting 3 mercenaries.
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Discussion Topic: Cannon and D'Augustino commit to UM
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on May 3, 2023
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When I was just starting to wrestle, Howard Ferguson took over St Eds. At the time, the Eagles were a terrible program with no wrestling tradition. He understood, however, that talented youth wrestlers could be funneled towards St Eds. And that's exactly what happened. There were a lot of accusations about cheating and under the table monies being exchanged but nothing that ever stuck. Ferguson was wealthy, charismatic and understood the rules allowed for St Eds to accept any wrestler from anywhere. At the time, there was no open enrollment. It was just public and private. Ferguson seized the opportunity and created one of the greatest high school wrestling programs in the history of our sport.
The NIL is offering opportunities for programs with monied alums/fans to purchase their way towards a NCAA championship. We may not like it. And it may do a lot of harm to less subsidized programs. But that's where we are at in this moment.
Howard Ferguson changed high school wrestling forever. It remains to be seen how D1 college wrestling is changed by the NIL. But the change is inevitable.
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Discussion Topic: Cannon and D'Augustino commit to UM
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on May 3, 2023
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Similar to St. Paris Graham…they were always a solid program, but when Coach Jordan took over obviously things exploded to the tune of 20-plus years of dominance. There have always been rumblings, rival coaches who say this rule or that rule is being broken. But I feel like, with the everyone watching and looking for a rules violations, if there was something there someone would’ve found it.
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Discussion Topic: Cannon and D'Augustino commit to UM
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on May 4, 2023
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"Similar to St. Paris Graham…they were always a solid program, but when Coach Jordan took over obviously things exploded to the tune of 20-plus years of dominance. There have always been rumblings, rival coaches who say this rule or that rule is being broken. But I feel like, with the everyone watching and looking for a rules violations, if there was something there someone would’ve found it."
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Sort of. The OHSAA really doesn't do much unless it's blatant and the evidence is handed to them and it's incontrovertible. All powerhouse programs are likely engaged in some level of shenanigans but they're not going to blow the whistle on each other. The rest of the programs are just trying to stay relevant. Or so I think.
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Discussion Topic: Cannon and D'Augustino commit to UM
Mike Stann added to this discussion on May 4, 2023
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it seems it's only a matter of time before a sophomore all-American transfers to a powerhouse program with deep pocket supporters
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