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Discussion Topic: Who Was The Bucks Best Non NCAA Champ?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 15, 2023
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Drew: I don't mind being corrected. I do remember how awful it felt to see him lose in the closing seconds. He must have lost his next match as well.
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Discussion Topic: Who Was The Bucks Best Non NCAA Champ?
Jeff Streu added to this discussion on June 15, 2023
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Drew: I don't mind being corrected. I do remember how awful it felt to see him lose in the closing seconds. He must have lost his next match as well."
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I remember it because I was there in NYC. He lost to Randy Cruz of Lehigh in the bloodround. The thing I remember most is that Cruz was like a backpack on top and unfortunately Micah could not get out.
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Discussion Topic: Who Was The Bucks Best Non NCAA Champ?
Scott Nicola added to this discussion on June 22, 2023
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The answer is Lance Palmer. 4X AA with wins over Metcalf, Schlatter and Burroughs.
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Discussion Topic: Who Was The Bucks Best Non NCAA Champ?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 23, 2023
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Quote from Scott Nicola's post:
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"The answer is Lance Palmer. 4X AA with wins over Metcalf, Schlatter and Burroughs."
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Good answer. Hard to argue. The only negative would be that he once got taken apart by Darrion Caldwell. I think he got pinned in under a minute. Seemed surreal when I watched.
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Discussion Topic: Who Was The Bucks Best Non NCAA Champ?
Ben Golden added to this discussion on June 23, 2023
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Darrion Caldwell could have that effect on people. Did it to Metcalf a couple times as well!
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Discussion Topic: Who Was The Bucks Best Non NCAA Champ?
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on June 23, 2023
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Not so fast -- J.D. Bergman is right there with Lance. Add in his multiple times making the US World team and he's, IMHO, clearly ahead of LP.
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Discussion Topic: Who Was The Bucks Best Non NCAA Champ?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 23, 2023
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"Not so fast -- J.D. Bergman is right there with Lance. Add in his multiple times making the US World team and he's, IMHO, clearly ahead of LP."
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That would be my other choice.
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Discussion Topic: Who Was The Bucks Best Non NCAA Champ?
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on June 23, 2023
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There is only one answer here and it is plain and simple. Kollin Moore.
Lance had a tough weight class but he finished 4,8,4,2. Lance lost his last match each and every season.
Kollin would have been 3, 4, 2, 1.
No one gave him a close match his senior season
His junior season he mauled everyone except bo nickal. He was bonusing everyone else. Bo is an all time great and it was his senior year.
Sophomore year just couldn’t figure out conel.
Freshman year went toe to toe with jden cox.
If sasso doesn’t win this year he is the only one in the conversation with Kollin but hopefully he is no longer in this discussion come next march.
I mean this shouldn’t even be a debate in my opinion
J.D. dnp one year he’s eliminated also
I have bo jordan as my number two also. No one is giving him enough credit. 3,3,2,5 I believe he was. His senior year he was clearly hampered by injuries. Also having a kid in college had to affect his career also I would imagine.
1.Moore. Basically got cheated out of a championship
2.sasso hopefully not on this list next year
3. Bo jordan
4. Lance Palmer
5. Pletcher
6. Humphrey. New takedown rule he would have beat dake
7. Bergman
8. Heflin
Pletcher and Heflin improved significantly once they went to the right weight class or could have been higher in this list.
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Last edited by Nick Lecklider on June 23, 2023; edited 2 times in total
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Discussion Topic: Who Was The Bucks Best Non NCAA Champ?
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on June 23, 2023
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Quote from Scott Nicola's post:
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"The answer is Lance Palmer. 4X AA with wins over Metcalf, Schlatter and Burroughs."
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Metcalf he would have won maybe 1 time if they wrestled 25 times. He got the big ten championship bc he caught metcalf on his back.
Schlatter was injured badly junior and senior seasons. Asterisk there.
Burroughs was 16-13 his freshman year lol. If lance wrestled a junior or senior Burroughs he gets majored minimum. Another asterisk
0-4 in his final placement matches.
Great career but he just wasn’t the career of Moore.
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Discussion Topic: Who Was The Bucks Best Non NCAA Champ?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 23, 2023
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"
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Quote from Scott Nicola's post:
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"The answer is Lance Palmer. 4X AA with wins over Metcalf, Schlatter and Burroughs."
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Metcalf he would have won maybe 1 time if they wrestled 25 times. He got the big ten championship bc he caught metcalf on his back.
Schlatter was injured badly junior and senior seasons. Asterisk there.
Burroughs was 16-13 his freshman year lol. If lance wrestled a junior or senior Burroughs he gets majored minimum. Another asterisk
0-4 in his final placement matches.
Great career but he just wasn’t the career of Moore."
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Everyone can interpret results as they see fit to a certain extent. Bucks were in the hunt for a title when Moore got whacked by Conel. Conel never did anything after that.
Palmer pinned Schlatter in an AA match. Schlatter may not have been 100% at that moment but who is?
Your Metcalf v Palmer 25x is off base as well. Had they wrestled 25x, it's more likely the gap would have closed and Lance would have won 5-10. it's called reversion to the mean.
Just to be clear, I have immense respect for Kollin Moore and your argument that he's the best of this bunch is a valid one to make. But I think your comments about Lance by comparison should be more thoughtful.
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Discussion Topic: Who Was The Bucks Best Non NCAA Champ?
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on June 23, 2023
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Lance I do believe wrestled metcalf around 8 or so times and only took him down one time in all the matchups. Metcalf absolutely had his number except when Lance put him on his back one time at the big ten championship.
To Lance credit he had incredibly deep weight classes in his first two tournaments.
The thing that just puts him down a notch is just he never won his final match of the year in my view.
Kollin got three tournies and shouldn’t even be in the discussion bc he got screwed out of title. While underclassman got 5 attempts.
Conel just had magic that weekend. No one could figure it out. He was injured the rest of his career going forward.
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Discussion Topic: Who Was The Bucks Best Non NCAA Champ?
Mike Stann added to this discussion on June 23, 2023
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IMO J.D. a strong candidate and my favorite. third as a true freshman and like Snyder dominated heavyweight except for one Dustin For as a former 197. Against Fox he got in on a legs often in the match but Fox was just too big for him to finish. Twice the USA Open champ.
The flaw I see with Kolin is you just can't assume a title. Can you say Myles Martin? He also might have gotten injured or repeated his sophomore year results where he was also the favorite. I would say he got cheated out of the chance for a national championship.
Lance is also a good choice as Brent Metcalf dominated everyone in his career not named Darrion. Also would like to point out that I would consider someone who finished in the top three for three years as opposed to a 4X AA who was in the bottom 4 all four years. I just don't think the number of AAs is a disqualifier.
Long post but I also feel HunterSteiber has to be in the conversation. up until an injury curtailed his career he was beating the best.
I'm one of those guys who can't really comment on those I did not get to watch during their careers
Great topic
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Discussion Topic: Who Was The Bucks Best Non NCAA Champ?
Jack Muni added to this discussion on June 23, 2023
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If I remember Anderson beat Scott Owen, Becker and Bertin in a 2 week period prior to Big Tens, but got injured and never won the NCAA title. Plus he had won the Midlands that season.
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Discussion Topic: Who Was The Bucks Best Non NCAA Champ?
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on June 23, 2023
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"Conel just had magic that weekend. No one could figure it out. He was injured the rest of his career going forward."
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He (Conel) took 3rd so somebody figured it out. :)
I still stand by Bergman.
3, DNP, 4,2
2 World Teams. 6 US Natioa teams in FS and 2 in Greco.
I believe Kollin would have won his Sr year - but nobody thought Conel would beat him his So. year either so while a prohibitive favorite, as we saw this year, isn’t a guarantee of a title.
Strong arguments can be made for a small palm full of guys (LP, RH, BoJo, KM) but for me, it’s J.D..
PS: if not for a Metcalf singlet pull, Lance gets him at NCAA’s also. Just sayin. ????
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Last edited by Brady Hiatt on June 25, 2023; edited 2 times in total
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Discussion Topic: Who Was The Bucks Best Non NCAA Champ?
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on June 23, 2023
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Bo was jobbed vs Mark Hall. Mind won’t be changed.
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