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Discussion Topic: Another reason to love GWB
Mike Taylor added to this discussion on May 8, 2008
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Hank:
It sounds like you and I are of the same mind on much of this issue. I wonder how public opinion would have been different had our pres. said "Oops, we made a mistake (w/ regards to WMD in Iraq). The intelligence I was given was flawed at best." Would we still be there...I believe so. However, I don't think there would be as much mistrust in our president. As far as wanting our leaders to take responsibility and be held accountable for their actions, I'd like to see that w/ all those who voted for the war and are now crying out against it. I'm not much of a fan of any of the people running for president, but at least McCain and Obama have not waivered on their initial stance on this war. Agree or disagree w/ them, they have stuck by their guns and have not tried to side step public criticism like so many others have in Washington...(the sidestepping is not just limited to the pres as you brought up).
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Discussion Topic: Another reason to love GWB
Ken Ramsey Sr. added to this discussion on May 8, 2008
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Mike:
Your reply is as good as any I have heard on this issue. Our country has become so bipartison that people believe one way or the other and will not listen to facts of the actual situation. If Bush could second quess himself I'm sure he would have done things differently now, but we unfortunately are not afforded that option in a case of this magnitude. Bush made his choice on information provided to him (Much of the information was gathered during the Clinton Administration.) and both parties of Congress believed the gathered information to be true. Many of the major Countries of the World also believed this information to be true because of intelligence gathered by their own governments. That is what makes your reply so meaningful. I truly believe our country is trying to make the world a better place and trying to give the opportunity of freedom to others. Thank God for all people like you who serve our country to defend freedom for the people of the world.
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Discussion Topic: Another reason to love GWB
Ken Ramsey Sr. added to this discussion on May 8, 2008
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Hank:
The responsibility for Katrina belongs with many, starting in DC with all the Republicans and Democrats who had been warned for decades that a situation like Katrina was inevitable and not a single one of them doing a thing about fixing the problems. The local and state governments, neither were prepared for such an occurance and were so inept that they would not allow help to be sent. Why Bush 2 and not the previous administrations of Clinton, Bush 1, Reagan and others who did nothing to fix levees? Both the Republicans and Democrats are more interested in taking care of the lobbyist and special interest groups, than helping the people who really need the aid.
I hope no American President ever resigns for standing strong on his belief that terrorism does not have a place in our world and honor his commitment to protect a country while they try to rebuild their government. Our sacrifices will be repaid ten-fold in the future if we persevere to the end.
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Discussion Topic: Another reason to love GWB
Harry Lester added to this discussion on May 8, 2008
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I would in no way ever try to cheapen the term serving my country. To me everytime i step on the mat i represent the US. I represent what the USA is all about. To me this is serving my country. If you think we just show up and wrestle at competitions you are surely mistaken. In most countries we with armed guards, it's nothing like what our soldiers go through but I put my life on the line also. Our wrestlers were shipped out of Serbia in late Feb. after the bombing of our embassy there. To say we don't make sacrifices is ridiculous. If you want more stories like that i could tell them to you all day.
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Discussion Topic: Another reason to love GWB
Roe Fox added to this discussion on May 8, 2008
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I sure wish this forum had another place for this. As someone who has been involved in some way or another in local and state politics for about 20 years this is a place where we shouldn't have to be concerned about those issues.
That said, I have a dear friend on his second tour in Iraq right now as a major in the Army. He is a hero of mine. His wife, two kids and my family try to get together when we can. His last real conversation to me about the war in Iraq (just before he left) was that at least Bush "stays on message." There is a purpose to keeping the fight over there rather than here. Do we think it is an accident that we haven't been hit again since 2001? Even if it is, I'll take it and thank our military for what they are doing. He absolutely doesn't want to leave his family but feels its his duty to make the country (and world) safer. The intel about WMD was faulty but mostly came from other countries, particularly England, who we rely on.
I am disappointed about W, especially this last term. However, if any of you think we are going to do better with McCain, Obama or Clinton I think you are in for a rude awakening. We need leaders we can believe in, like Reagan and Kennedy, who lead, not follow a poll. We are at fault for voting the same dupes into office.
None of the new presidential candidates would save this funding Vince is concerned about. It doesn't win votes or make headlines. Maybe if it became a constitutional issue Chief Justice John Roberts (a former wrestler) would save it! Someone should sue (just kidding).
Who is the Bucks' 174 going to be next year?
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Discussion Topic: Another reason to love GWB
Roe Fox added to this discussion on May 8, 2008
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Harry:
Thanks. You do represent our country. It's why we are all riveted to the TV when the Olympics are on. But if you don't come back with the gold you better enjoy Chinese food.
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Discussion Topic: Another reason to love GWB
Ken Ramsey Sr. added to this discussion on May 8, 2008
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Vince:
Instead of taking the negative approach, why not try the positive approach? Jim Jordan is an Ohio representative in Washington D.C., a former national wrestling figure with great respect for his accomplishments in both wrestling and politics. Jim may be able to find help to get the right message to President Bush on this important program or advise us on the proper method to get important data to the proper people. This approach always leads to a more positive ending. I would never expect to get positive results by attacking the opposition in power.
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Discussion Topic: Another reason to love GWB
Ken Ramsey Sr. added to this discussion on May 8, 2008
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Roe:
It gives me hope when someone thinks before they say or write something this important. Your Reagan and Kennedy leaders reference shows that the USA is more important to you than any party affiliation.
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Discussion Topic: Another reason to love GWB
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on May 8, 2008
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About our Political System:
The two party system in our country has reached a point where I believe it causes great harm. Each party seems to have the consolidation of political power as its only ambition. If a president's party is in power, it seems he can do anything without appropriate checks and balances. I think we'd be better served if our large parties splintered into smaller ones so there'd be less abuses of power.
About the "flawed" intelligence that led us into Iraq:
There was no flawed intelligence until we created it. The CIA told the Bush administration repeatedly that it could find no evidence of WMD's. Also, there were no obvious links to Al Qaeda. Dick Cheney distrusted the CIA and pointed out (correctly) that there were times in the recent past where they had missed badly. In fact, during the first Gulf War, evidence of a nuclear program had been found within Iraq and the US had had no idea. Cheney formed his own intelligence gathering unit within the pentagon complex and had it report directly to him. It's sole mission was to discover links between Iraq, terrorism and Al Qaeda. I think Cheney honestly believed that Saddam had to be involved in it. But they couldn't initially find anything. Eventually, they discovered evidence of a meeting between an Iraqi official and one of the 9/11 hijackers. The CIA, however, had hard evidence that during the time this meeting was alleged to have taken place, the hijacker was in Florida. This was ignored. It's one instance of many that show a pattern of ignoring facts in favor of "intuition".
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Discussion Topic: Another reason to love GWB
Erik Nell added to this discussion on May 9, 2008
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I enjoyed reading all the posts and the opinions on this thread; I must say no one is right or wrong on this subject. People gather information and formulate their own opinion on what they believe to be true, but the fact of the matter Hank is that you do not have all the information, but you are allowed to have an opinion and write so elegantly about what you believe to be true and fact. You have that right because men and women have fought and died for hundreds of years to give you that right.
It’s all the rage now to say we support our troops, but then ridicule their commander and chief. It’s so easy to do it in front of your computer in your cozy house in Ohio.
I will try to put my feelings in perspective. I have a twin brother who will be going over there to relieve an MP unit, and help police in Samarra Iraq. My mom is reading papers every day to try and get information on what conflicts are going on in this part of the country, she is so worried but, she will not show it. My Dad a Vietnam vet is worried for my brother, but he will not show it. Because this is my brother’s duty as an American Soldier, it is his legacy and he is honored to do it.
He will not say it but I will, we feel it is irresponsible for people to come on a public forum and bash the commander and chief most especially in time of war. It irritates me to no end that people think they have all the answers as they wear their Birkenstocks and hold up their anti Bush signs on street corners so conveniently by a Star Bucks.
So Hank and Vince you can tell him thank you for serving his country. You can say you support our troops. But he gets real support from his family and most especially from the American soldier to his right and to his left.
So convenient for people to be supportive, so convenient for people to know it all, so convenient for people to ridicule while they sit State Side in their virtual Ivory Towers, or on street corners while they eat their bean sprouts and sipping on their second Latte of the day.
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Discussion Topic: Another reason to love GWB
Jeremiah Webber added to this discussion on May 9, 2008
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Well said Mr. Nell.
As you people sleep under this warm blanket of security every night, remember; brave men and women are out there in the world putting their lives on the line so you don’t have to.
Some of you people might need a quote from pop culture to reference: Jack Nicholson said it best in the movie A Few Good Men, “you can’t handle the truth.” The truth, my fellow Americans, is that; people have to die to protect the world we live in. Some times those people have to be people we know. And all this anti American BS dishonors each and every one of those brave men and women.
I am speaking from experience when I say: you people have no idea how difficult it is to be over seas and to hear nothing but negativity coming from your own country. You’re not doing anyone any favors, so I simply ask that you think before you act.
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Discussion Topic: Another reason to love GWB
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on May 9, 2008
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Quote from Jeremiah Webber's post:
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"I am speaking from experience when I say: you people have no idea how difficult it is to be over seas and to hear nothing but negativity coming from your own country."
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I agree, you have made some good points, imo, but you need to be careful with such a sweeping statement -- I am sure quite a few vets read this forum. I myself served in a combat unit in Vietnam in 1965-66, so my dues have long since been paid.
People actually
"eat bean sprouts and drink lattes"
--- at the same time?? Ugh!! ----- I don't know any of those people and I doubt many are wrestling fans.
And i do think Harry Lester is serving his country, IMO, and serving it very well. ---- Time to talk wrestling again, gentlemen.
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Discussion Topic: Another reason to love GWB
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 9, 2008
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One last thing, if I may Bob...
To you, Mr. Nell's father and any other Vietnam vets reading this forum and thread...
1) Welcome home. From all the things I've read from soldiers' first hand accounts (
Welcome Home
; Bob Greene,
Forever A Soldier
, Tom Wiener - to name but two) and news stories from back in that time, I'm not so sure you've received your welcome. And if the reports I've read hold true, you didn't go there just to receive a welcome home.
You went because your country called. You went to serve your country
.
2) And for that last point I say thank you.
It is great to see so many tributes and memorials to this war and its soldiers. Some have speculated that it is the Vietnam generation making sure these soldiers receive their due honor.
Thank you to all. And welcome home.
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Discussion Topic: Another reason to love GWB
Ken Ramsey Sr. added to this discussion on May 9, 2008
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Mark, Neil & Jeremiah:
There are so many of us out here who feel as you do, but too many of us tend to be quiet and let the Bush haters push their agenda. When our country is at war we should support our President (no matter who he is) and keep the politics out. The people who do not support the policies set for this war only prolong the war by giving our enemies hope that we will eventually quit and leave. The constant micro reporting by the media only puts our soldiers in more danger, not only by exposing our tactics, but putting our soldiers at risk protecting them in places they should not be.
No one in their right mind wants war, but some times we have no choice. Thank God for people like you and your families who believe in the principles of our country. I am sure you would support our President, be he Democrat or Republican. This lesson needs to be taught to our politicians in Washington, DC.
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Discussion Topic: Another reason to love GWB
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on May 9, 2008
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A young man walks into his home and murders his parents. He is arrested and brought before a judge. "How do you plead?" he is asked. "Not guilty, your honor. I'm an orphan."
That's about the same logic as supporting your president 100% because it's war time.
Incidentally, I don't drink lattes. I don't wear birkenstocks. Nor do I hang out often at Starbucks. And I only eat bean sprouts at my favorite Thai restaurant where they come with they come with the spicy beef soup.
When my neighbor went to Iraq, my wife and I frequently had his wife and two sons over for dinner. We babysat for her as well. We felt it was the least we could do to support our friend and soldier. And we never discussed politics.
I feel a nation should not go to war unless it is a neccesity. We had to attack Afghanistan. I understood that.
I'll drop it from here.
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