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Discussion Topic: Watch Ohio State v. Michigan from Home
Don Bork added to this discussion on February 11, 2008
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Comparing Bleske to Sponseller shows a lack of respect for a great young wrestler. Sponseller was aggressive the whole match, start to finish, and most of Tannenbaum's points came due to Colt's aggressive style. Bleske thought he was in a track meet.
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Discussion Topic: Watch Ohio State v. Michigan from Home
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 11, 2008
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Wow, I posted what I thought was a pretty reasonable account of what happened at the Ohio State versus Michigan dual and I just put my daughter to sleep and logged on to see I'm being dragged through the mud again online. What does it say about those who attack me that I talk about Ohio State and they talk about me personally. I have never said anything about any of the DiSabatos on a personal level. I have said that they are the greatest wrestling family in our great state's history. And that Adam, in particular was outstanding, aggressive and brutal.
So anyway, I thought I would answer Vince's little brother's questions in hopes of putting this silly little feud between people who don't even know each other behind us (I know, it's a long shot)
#1, "IF you did not lose in the State Finals, would you still be so BITTER?"
Well no. At least not about that. But I will say that the "Bitterrunner-up" thing gets way overblown. It's a tongue-in-cheek between me and some friends from years ago that just stuck when I used it online way back when I started on JJHuddle. It seems odd to me that when people don't like what I post, they always seem to pick on that first.
#2, "IF you did not get beat up in practice at OSU everyday, would you have quit the team after 1 year?" Actually, it was two years, but more to the point, the reason I left the team was because I left the school. My issues were much more in the classroom then in the wrestling room. And as far as being beat up, my rookie year Adam, Mark and Mario did beat up on me quite a bit, but my second year, while I still didn't hold a candle to Adam (who did?). I'll take the Pepsi challenge with everyone else in that room around my weight and I, while the matches were almost always close, I won more than I lost. Dom, McCoy, Chertow, Michlaels, Babe Sidon, Mike Doll, Dan Lopez, Buck Miller, Bubba Taylor and so on. I held my own with all of those guys.
#3, "IF the Ready program had better VOLUNTEER assistant coaches, would they still have finished dead last in the CCL this year? Now here's where you really lose me. You're so mad at me, basically because I don't like Ohio State that you are willing to trash a bunch of hard working kids from your old school. You guys don't know me, all you know is that I'm not an OSU fan, and that's all it takes. If you don't love Ohio State you can't possibly be a good coach or a good person. You can't possibly bring anything positive to the table. Your time, even volunteered, is worthless...Because you don't like Ohio State. Really???
I have said on many occasions and Coach Nicola has as well that you are welcome in that room any time. The invitation has been out there for a long long time, and yet your busy schedules have not allowed you to make an appearance. I guess it's just easier to mock kids who look up to you as heroes and talk about your pictures on their wrestling room walls then it would be to volunteer your time to come in to your alma mater and help out. If you did, then you could actually talk to the kids I coach and see what they thing of me. You could even watch me coach and then your criticisms would at least be educated.
I will say this, you guys keep me on my toes online.
Kirk Nail... First off, I want to say how much I enjoyed watching you in high school and at tOSU. I was pulling for you in your matches with Tony Johnson and I was very impressed at your All-American finish your sophomore year. We actually went a few goes one at an open mat heading into your senior season, but I digress. To be honest, you were dead-on with your assessment of my intention regarding Churella wrestling. You asked, "Why would he have liked to see Ohio State lose?" and the answer is, because I don't like Ohio State. You were correct when you said that had Churella wrestled, it likely costs Ohio State the major (at least) and ultimately the dual.
After reading your posts, I will say this. I think you are right regarding my negativity towards Ohio State. As I write this stuff, I never think that the team or coaches would be reading it. But regardless, I have gone overboard from time to time (although I don't think I did in this case). You guys are college kids working hard at something special and it must suck to come home after busting your butt in the room to log on to your computer and have some guy bash your coach and your team. Point taken. I'll still be honest, but I'll try to back off the negativity.
I have often said (although it may get lost in all the anti-OSU stuff) that Coach Ryan and staff are doing all the right things and this team is well on its way to doing some very special things. If I was an Ohio State fan, I'd be very happy about where this team is headed.
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Discussion Topic: Watch Ohio State v. Michigan from Home
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 11, 2008
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Yeah but wait til next year!
This is so bizarre that it is comical and very sad at the same time.
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Discussion Topic: Watch Ohio State v. Michigan from Home
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 11, 2008
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Mark... I totally agree with you, but at some point I felt like I had to respond, you know?
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Discussion Topic: Watch Ohio State v. Michigan from Home
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 11, 2008
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I do. And I think you should have your chance. ...and there it was.
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Discussion Topic: Watch Ohio State v. Michigan from Home
Vince DiSabato added to this discussion on February 11, 2008
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I was called this afternoon about this particular thread. I had not had the time to see what was written here until much later but I can share that I did jokingly chastise Kirk Nail at practice for the IF questions.
I will say this though... there comes a time when we take sides or are offended by positions that others take. In a country that has free speech it is to be expected. It also entitles each of us the right to say what we think and feel.
I have an issue with some of the things that have been stated here. And finally when Kirk Nail did respond and stated the obvious that he as well as many have been offended by Mike Rodrigues, for not only his current statements but so many of his past statements toward the previous administration at tOSU. In fact it had caused Rex Holman and myself to have a little chat...which I appreciated so that he understood how our views were not far askew. I was later called by two other parents of the current Bucks who thanked me for my statements toward Mike. I appreciated those calls as well.
Incidentally Kirk should not be mistaken as my little brother. He is neither little nor my brother. He is however my little brother's former wrestler and my employee and protegee as well. We do feel that he is family. And in our family we live by this credo... we can fight amongst ourselves but God help anyone trying to fight any of us. It is called loyalty.
I will also share this... I appreciate what the Nicola brothers have said. They are exhibitting the same credo. I guess all of us dumb dagos were raised that way. But I was contacted over a month ago about my stance with this Bitter guy by the Nicolas.
I wrote back privately to Brian and it was not intended as a slight to Scott. And I will only share this from that letter to Brian...."I know why Mike hates OSU. I also realize that that tiny school at the end of Mound Street produced many athletes/alumni for the University that he bashes. Inclussion is easier when the needs and wants of the many out weigh the needs and wants of the few or the one."
Now there may be some that say that Kirk, or VinceD's little brother or even myself have gone or are way out of line in any statement to this Bitter charachter. But his statement that this has been cut and pasted on other sites to my knowledge is a falsehood. And if it has it wasn't by us. Neither myself, Kirk or VinceD's little brother have the time nor the expertise to cut and paste. Trust me on this.
Dan you have a great site here. Mike has the right to say and express himself as he sees fit. But please... if one has attacked someone else's institutions or loves than that person should consider the fact that there will be a backlash from those people that say ENOUGH.
I have also read what this Bitter guy has written on TheMat.com. as well as many posters that hail from Iowa. You know what I found...that the Iowa people are almost as negative. My impression is this...they are worried...and they should be!
On a personal note, I was saddened to see that our beloved Silver Knights didn't fare so well in the rejuvinated CCL meet. But myself, my little brother and Kirk met over the weekend a nice young man that was the freshman coach for the Hilliard Davidson Boys Soccer team just 3 years ago. He told us that the senior class of team that actually won the state title this past year, which he coached, were 2-16 as freshman. Quite a turn around! He also shared that he stopped coaching because he re-entered school. I then asked him as I do so many others..."what did you learn?" His response was "I shouldn't coach anymore." to which we all laughed.
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Discussion Topic: Watch Ohio State v. Michigan from Home
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on February 11, 2008
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Mike, I have to say that everything you just said is extremely reasonable. One of my best friends is a Michigan fan, so I hold no ill will toward anybody for not being an OSU fan. The opinions are welcome.
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Discussion Topic: Watch Ohio State v. Michigan from Home
Dan Cosimi added to this discussion on February 12, 2008
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Mike, Vince, Kirk, etc.:
Vince wrote: "... if one has attacked someone else's institutions or loves than that person should consider the fact that there will be a backlash from those people that say ENOUGH."
I agree, there would and should be a backlash. But you must also consider that by using this forum as a medium for your backlash, you hijacked a topic of 150+ posts that included live updates for one of the most exciting duals of the year and a celebration of an awesome Buckeye victory over a very tough Michigan team. No longer will people be able to come on this topic and see praise of the Buckeyes. Instead, they'll see this bickering. And that's just this time. Last time you hijacked a great discussion on the development of college wrestlers started by Rex Holman. And, if this doesn't get resolved, there will be a next time, and a next time, and a next time... This discussion is exactly why a lot of people hate online forums. It shouldn't be like that. We're better than this.
The past is gone; it can only be learned from. Mike has acknowledged where he had previously brought negativity and he said it would not continue. I ask that the other side of this debate do the same.
Either discuss this in person as men (not internet personalities) or drop it. Carrying out this battle on here will do nothing for this forum other than tear down what we've built and make people in our community angry. Calling out the Ohio State wrestling team, the Bishop Ready wrestling team, or anyone else in a negative or condescending way is just not right and it's exactly what we don't want or need here.
I have a ton of respect for the DiSabato family, the Nicola family, Mike Rodriguez, and Kirk Nail. I only ask that you, in turn, show the same respect for our forum community and take your battle elsewhere so that we're not stuck in its wake, robbing us of the opportunity to continue to promote our sport in a positive way and discuss the sport we love.
Consider my thoughts, if you will. I have put in countless hours of service to the sport as a member of the media through this website. It's something I'm proud of and something I love doing, just as you loved the competing on the Ohio State wrestling squad or coaching at Bishop Ready.
Consider the forum community who comes here because they know it's a reliable, quality place to talk about wrestling. Consider the wrestling community as a whole who looks at this website as one of the few examples of a media outlet dedicated to covering wrestling thoroughly and positively.
This forum is a great resource for the Ohio wrestling community on their biggest media outlet, OhioWrestling.Net, who's top discussion is getting shut down because of a personal battle. This is my work getting stepped on because people only care to resolve their battles not in person but online, where accountability is at an all-time low.
This is me being the one who says, "ENOUGH."
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Discussion Topic: Watch Ohio State v. Michigan from Home
Vince DiSabato added to this discussion on February 12, 2008
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Dan, judging from the time of your post you certainly are putting in some long hours. I am thankful that nobody has said to you "put the beer down and slowly move away from the keyboard."
I agree wholeheartedly with your post. It was well written and thoughtful to which I say fair enough. And I am sorry that you feel that your work has been stepped on or that anyone was hijacking a thread. That was never the intent. And it is never just that simple is it?
Keep up the great work.
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Discussion Topic: Watch Ohio State v. Michigan from Home
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on February 12, 2008
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Quote from Kirk Nail's post:
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"Hank, you're not understanding. If Churella had wrestled (assuming all other outcomes are the same) even Palmer beats him, we still lose the dual. Lance would have to get bonus points which history tells us it wasn't going to happen. Could it? Yes. Would it? Very unlikely. So the point is: Why would Michael liked to have seen the outcome if Churella had wrestled? Why would he have liked to see Ohio State lose?"
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Is it wrong to want to see Ohio State lose? <cool>
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Discussion Topic: Watch Ohio State v. Michigan from Home
Kirk Nail added to this discussion on February 12, 2008
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Gary, I guess not. It makes sense if you're not a fan.
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Discussion Topic: Watch Ohio State v. Michigan from Home
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on February 12, 2008
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Kirk, it makes even more sense if you are a Michigan grad. <smile>
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Discussion Topic: Watch Ohio State v. Michigan from Home
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 12, 2008
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That's 2 cool points!!! Consider yourself downgraded, buddy.
Just as a point of note...if the pollsters have a clue as to what is going on in college wrestling, it would only make sense that
if
everything went as planned, then tOSU would (or maybe should) lose the dual meet against Michigan.
The good news is that that is why you wrestle the matches.
Either way, I'm glad we won on Sunday evening and I'm even happier to be a Buckeye!
Go Buckeyes!!!
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Discussion Topic: Watch Ohio State v. Michigan from Home
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on February 12, 2008
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Me downgraded? For choosing quality? <protest> <smile>
http://www.ordoludus.com/5.html
Interesting website. I fell asleep scrolling down to find Ohio State. <cool>
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Discussion Topic: Watch Ohio State v. Michigan from Home
Scott Nicola added to this discussion on February 12, 2008
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As long as we're talking about OSU wrestling again, I would like to weigh in on the team score. I will first qualify this by saying I was not at the dual as I was out of town. I do attend many OSU matches and reviewed the scores. There are many circumstances that caused this match to play out the way it did. The fact is Churella was not in the lineup and Palmer took care of business. I think Palmer wins a close one if Churella is there. The real keys to victory are that Jaggers and Pucillo stepped up and beat wrestlers who had beaten them earlier in the year. In addition guys like Sponseller and Picazo were able to keep it to a decision against wrestlers who (at this point) appear to be significantly better than them. In other words, the outcome of this match had more to do with who did "show up" (figuratively) than who did not (literally).
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