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Discussion Topic: NCAA tournament thread
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 24, 2024
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Quote from Jack Muni's post:
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"In case some of you hadn't noticed, Penn State is really good at wrestling tactics. They know the rules and understand how to exploit them. They do this in all situations. That's why Mendez winning tonight is extra special."
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It's interesting you bring up that point Hank, because when Rocco wrestled Starocci in the dual, I don't recall Starocci taking that many shot in the match. but tonight he took enough to get 2 stall calls. That may have been the plan all along. It's rough to take a loss when the only points were from an escape and stalling."
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Two stall calls in the first was classic atrocious Angel officiating.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA tournament thread
Roe Fox added to this discussion on March 24, 2024
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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Quote from Jack Muni's post:
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"
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"In case some of you hadn't noticed, Penn State is really good at wrestling tactics. They know the rules and understand how to exploit them. They do this in all situations. That's why Mendez winning tonight is extra special."
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It's interesting you bring up that point Hank, because when Rocco wrestled Starocci in the dual, I don't recall Starocci taking that many shot in the match. but tonight he took enough to get 2 stall calls. That may have been the plan all along. It's rough to take a loss when the only points were from an escape and stalling."
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Two stall calls in the first was classic atrocious Angel officiating."
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In my opinion, he should never ref big matches. It seems he almost always wants to be part of the result. This includes some of hid Big Ten matches.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA tournament thread
Doug Gainous added to this discussion on March 24, 2024
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The fact that I know the refs name is a pretty good indicator I think he stinks. Angel influences a lot of matches.
The 2nd stall in the first was garbage. The no stalling in the 3rd on Carter was just another example of Angel being Angel.
Great season for Rocco. The future is bright!
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Discussion Topic: NCAA tournament thread
Mike Stann added to this discussion on March 24, 2024
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I think the stall call changed everything. I think Rocco would have taken down in the third and escaped. He had two escapes in the first match both in about 20 seconds. That stall call effectively took away the chance to go to ot. And for not being called all season it wasn't even called like that in the tournament. I mean did anyone watch the Daton Fix match. He was on the edge the entire match. I do think that the fact that he was wrestling Starrocci and Penn St. and Rocco was a freshman weighed on the decision subconsciously. Kinda reminds me of when Nick wrestled Jaden Cox. Cox bull rushed him off the mat the entire match and eventually got the stall call that won the match.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA tournament thread
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on March 24, 2024
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I do find it interesting that the acknowledged worst umpire in base ball and the official spoken about in this thread are both named Angel.
Over 40+ years, I have officiated a lot of matches and yet I can not grasp why and when NCAA officials are going to make a stalling call or not make a call. Watching the Fix match, I kept asking the guys around me (all officials) if they could understand why he was not being warned and/or penalized as he continuously went to the boundary. Keep in mind that I didn't care who won the match but it did seem as though the rules were applied very differently from the way I understand them.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA tournament thread
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 24, 2024
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I've always believed that guys that are seeded higher are given preferential treatment when it comes to subjective interpretation. Last night further solidifies this thought.
Beau Bartlett won the tie up game as did most PSU wrestlers. He had two legit shots on Jesse. Kind of choked as one of the primary rules of leg attacks is don't chase the finish from standing unless on the ankles. Too much scrambling left which, he found out the hard way. Hats off to Jesse for quick position recognition, stalemating the one and turning the table on the other.
Went back and watched the Kerkvliet v Davison match. He baited him. Kerk created the tie up he wanted. Davison thought he had one option and that was to grab a wrist. He did. All Kerk had to do was side snap, sidestep and grab a leg; hand was out of position=> Three. Brilliant and simple set up.
Rocco could've won that match but Starrocci was quicker to get to his ties. Needed to take away that strong collar tie. Also, could've been really aggressive with that ankle ride from top. Should've lined up right, pinched heels with legs and then just drove him forward taking his heel to his butt and ridden him like seabiscuit. By lining up right, that leg stays put and you have a built-in tight waist.
Really enjoyed Feldman's run. He's a better version of Kurt Angle at his age.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA tournament thread
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 24, 2024
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Rex: There is no question in my mind that the PSU coaches wanted Bartlett to be more aggressive. He was throughout the tourney. But he wasn't used to someone countering the way Jesse did. Rarely do I think that PSU staff outsmarted themselves but it appears that might be the case in this instance. Or perhaps not. I think Jesse is a shred better than Bartlett and that's why he won 2 out of 3.
Starocci could have ridden Welsh for two minutes and the Bucks staff knew it. He wasn't going to win that match unless he got a takedown.
Rocco is a very disciplined wrestler. He won three straight OT matches by wearing down opponents enough that they'd break position. Then he'd hit his shot and score. That wasn't going to work against Starocci. All this talk about officiating is mularkey in my opinion. Starocci was going to win 1-0 if need be. He is a world class competitor when healthy.
And kudos to Rocco on an excellent season and an awesome finish.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA tournament thread
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 24, 2024
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Rocco is a very disciplined wrestler. He won three straight OT matches by wearing down opponents enough that they'd break position. Then he'd hit his shot and score. That wasn't going to work against Starocci. All this talk about officiating is mularkey in my opinion. Starocci was going to win 1-0 if need be. He is a world class competitor when healthy. "
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CS won the match -- and most likely would have anyway. It may very well have turned out a 2-0 match because of riding time, but the BS stall calls in period 1 took away the down option -- and Rocco had escaped twice from CS in their dual.
There is no doubt that the stall calls effected the match -- and the second one was horrid.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA tournament thread
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 24, 2024
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Hank-
I disagree. His knee was still compromised and no one at the weight tested it. You heard Jordan Burroughs say he would go after it, and he would if the match was in question. Yesterday the match was in question. Rocco was a takedown away from winning.
Had he torqued on his leg for two minutes from the top position it would have been a different match. He could have gone back and forth between an ankle ride, flattening him out and digging a boot in. I would've bent leg Turk that thing if given the chance. I was kind of surprised no one tested it. Kind of weird. Given that everyone was competing for a championship, and I've seen dudes do way worse than that for an edge. It's a legal ride. Compare that to Dustin Plott locking out Truax's ankle and hurting his knee in the semifinal. He locked the joint and torqued. That was questionable to me.
Anyway, we'll never know for sure but I have my opinion.
Can you imagine if he ankle rode him flat, switched grips, curled that ankle and took him over to his back with a bent leg turk. That would've been the craziest moment in sport.
Place would've gone bonkers due to not knowing what to think or how to react.
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Last edited by Rex Holman on March 24, 2024; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: NCAA tournament thread
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 24, 2024
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Regarding Bartlet and Jesse;
I think they go back and forth.
Both of their wrestling has changed since the first time they met.
Beau felt the squeeze. Short time and a hurried finish. It happens to everyone in their careers. You wrestle differently because you try to make something happen right now. It's the path to failure.
Regardless of the circumstance, you always use best practice. The way he attempted to finish was not a best practice. There are a couple different ways to finish there and what he did was neither.
He knew it right away. His face gave it away. It was, "did I really just do that?"
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Discussion Topic: NCAA tournament thread
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 24, 2024
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"He knew it right away. His face gave it away. It was, "did I really just do that?""
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Can’t help but like Beau more. He smiled. Congratulated Jesse and ran to tOSU coaches, shook their hands and left the arena floor. Great attitude.
I told the person watching with me when I saw him kinda shake his head right after he gave up the td. I said, “it looked like Bartlett said, “ya got me there. Good on ya.”
To me, the respect that almost all competitors had for each other was very noticeable and I really appreciated it.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA tournament thread
Ben Golden added to this discussion on March 24, 2024
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"Hank-
I disagree. His knee was still compromised and no one at the weight tested it. You heard Jordan Burroughs say he would go after it, and he would if the match was in question. Yesterday the match was in question. Rocco was a takedown away from winning.
Had he torqued on his leg for two minutes from the top position it would have been a different match. He could have gone back and forth between an ankle ride, flattening him out and digging a boot in. I would've bent leg Turk that thing if given the chance. I was kind of surprised no one tested it. Kind of weird. Given that everyone was competing for a championship, and I've seen dudes do way worse than that for an edge. It's a legal ride. Compare that to Dustin Plott locking out Truax's ankle and hurting his knee in the semifinal. He locked the joint and torqued. That was questionable to me.
Anyway, we'll never know for sure but I have my opinion.
Can you imagine if he ankle rode him flat, switched grips, curled that ankle and took him over to his back with a bent leg turk. That would've been the craziest moment in sport.
Place would've gone bonkers due to not knowing what to think or how to react."
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I was genuinely shocked that neither Mekhi Lewis nor Shane Griffith tested that leg or even Starocci's lateral movement AT ALL. Each of them did precisely nothing the entire first periods of the matches. Those guys are national champs themselves.
Starocci is great, but sheesh, he must be in their heads. Credit to Rocco for at least taking a first period shot.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA tournament thread
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 24, 2024
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For what it's worth, if you want to test the bad leg, shoot on the good leg and force him to use the other one for balance/stability.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA tournament thread
Casey Talbott added to this discussion on March 25, 2024
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"For what it's worth, if you want to test the bad leg, shoot on the good leg and force him to use the other one for balance/stability."
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To my recall (vague), Dan Gable had a similar thought, albeit from the flip side, back in the '72 (Munich) Olympics. Had a bumb knee, decided to just offer offer it up (let guys in on it), and to then defend from there, with balance/stability provided by the good leg.
Think he didn't give up a point, so must have worked.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA tournament thread
Brian Mathews added to this discussion on March 25, 2024
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Quote from Ben Golden's post:
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"I was genuinely shocked that neither Mekhi Lewis nor Shane Griffith tested that leg or even Starocci's lateral movement AT ALL. Each of them did precisely nothing the entire first periods of the matches. Those guys are national champs themselves. "
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I think worth noting both Griffith and Lewis were far from 100% themselves.
6 and 7 years of college wrestling is too many.
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