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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v Edinboro Live Updates
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 14, 2008
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Bergman has some funk...counters well. 0-0
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v Edinboro Live Updates
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 14, 2008
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3-0 Honeycutt wins.
Weakley v Bradshaw.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v Edinboro Live Updates
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 14, 2008
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v Edinboro Live Updates
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 14, 2008
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5-1 Bergman...23-13 Ohio State
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v Edinboro Live Updates
Luke Moore added to this discussion on February 14, 2008
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It was good dual but there were some very questionable calls, all going to the Buckeyes. Still some good matches.
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Last edited by Luke Moore on February 15, 2008; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v Edinboro Live Updates
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 14, 2008
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Quote from Luke Moore's post:
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"It was good dual but you could definitely see some home cookin out of the refs. There were some very questionable calls, all going to the Buckeyes. Still some good matches."
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The only call that I really wondered about was the stalling point that Spons got to tie up the match. But consider this: King took a sizeable injury timeout at the end of the second period with a 3-0 lead. The official knows what King is doing and maybe that influences him to make the call.
The other odd call was Wes Bergman getting hit for stalling while coming up to his feet. Granted, Wes is not the most active wrestler I've ever seen...but that call went against Ohio State.
Since Fred Feeney checks this website, we'll have to wait for his explanation.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v Edinboro Live Updates
Luke Moore added to this discussion on February 14, 2008
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Don't get me wrong, Fred is a great official and he definitely knows what he is doing. That is why he is on the mat and I am watching from the second level. I suppose I did not take into account the injury TO. Either way, I don't imagine it is the first time someone has disagreed with a refs call.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v Edinboro Live Updates
Fred Feeney added to this discussion on February 15, 2008
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Interesting match from a referee's viewpoint. Before I ever step onto the mat, I always say a little prayer...please don't let me see something I have never sen before...and please don't let me screw up a big call.
There were a few great scrambles tonight. Control must be established in order to gain a TD..in the scrambles tonight, I didn't see any control established beyond reaction time.
Questionable calls? Home cooking? I never ever care who wins, who the home team is or what the score is. I make my calls based on what I see and if it fits the criteria. If it does..I make the call..if it doesn't..I don't.
I will tell you that until you are on that mat, in that situation, you have no idea the pressure that a referee is in. Each side is yelling, the fans are yelling, this is happening, that is occurring...a thousand things at one time...and you think I have time to think about anything other than is it 2 or not? Uh...no I don't.
The one TD in OT was actually an easy call. I was waiting for more...I needed more. I think I even said "I needed more". When the head was scooped, that gave me the criteria that I needed to give the TD...simple.
Stalling calls in college are very unique situations. I will tell you that the score matters, who has shot and who hasn't matters...who is pushing..who is shoving...who is working the edge..who is circling back in...who is defending a lead..who is blocking off...who is tieing up..who is riding...who is content...my goodness...there is a lot to consider. In that match..I felt that the Edinboro kid was defending his lead. He had been hit earlier and all I need in order not to call it are legitimate shots. Force me NOT to make the call versus not doing anything and making it easy for me to make the call to tie it up.
Want a stall call? Shoot..move forward..work harder than the other kid...make it so apparent that the other kid is stalling that it becomes a easy call to make because it stands out. the formula is simple: action forward (besides burying your head and blocking off) to no action and backing up....it really is a simple formula.
The Bergman stall call was easy because he was on hands and feet...and not attempting to do anything other than be content to stay there. Those are easy calls to make actually. He stayed in that same position for x amount of time and made no attempt to move from it.
I truly believe calling stalling in a college match, especially D1 wrestling is a art form. Most fans don't have a true grasp of the intricacies of the college stall call. For me..and maybe I am telling secrets...but I usually will give the top guy his chance to get his 1 minute riding time. Then a stalemate. If he is tough on top..and not creating an angle..he might get another stalemate or a stall call..but it will come at maybe 1:30. Attempt to turn is all we ask. Create an angle. Get off the hips. If he took the kid down...he is the aggressor...when fans/coaches start yelling about what the top guy is doing...well..he is riding the kid he just took down! He gets...some "credit" for that TD. After the first stalemate..I am usually indicating..."top guy...you need to be more aggressive here."
Bottom guy....well most times...the top guy in college is cranking this guy pretty hard. Whats the bottom guy have to do? He is allowed to counter halfs...is that stalling? He is allowed to counter tilts. He is allowed to counter arm bars..but the questions is...whats he doing after those counters? His he content to lay there with his head on the mat? He must make an honest attempt to escape. Ever really tried that with a kid on top of you with legs in cranking on your shoulder? Biggest indication that a stall call is coming is when the bottom man has his head down and clamps up.
Now...last thing...the actually warning. First stall call is a warning. It is me saying "hey..you better start to work up. You better start to get off the hips and create angles. You better stop playing the edge." Many time, I will caution the kid in the lead because he is shutting down some. He worked hard to get those TD's..I will give you some time...but don't start blocking or going backwards. Make me..not make the call by working a bit harder than the other kid. A warning is that...a warning.
If you think you will defend a 1 point lead..and you have all ready been hit for stalling...it probably wont happen and we will go to OT. Again...depends on the time. You get a 1 point led with less than 30 left...you really have to be running backwards or fleeing to get that second call. If you haven't been warned yet....you might get that warning call...but rarely...would there be a second in less than 30 sec.
It's not in the rule book...but the aggressor should win the match. Doesn't always happen..because of sloppy throws etc, but overall...the kid that truly is the aggressor should win the match. If a kid is wining by 5-6-7 points, he truly has been the aggressor....can he still be hit with a warning if he slows down...might....but I doubt it goes any further than that.
I love officiating. I love the intensity. Until you do it, you will never know the
exhilaration of what it is like calling a D1 match. When I walk onto a mat, I know there aren't very many that can do what I am about to do, at the level I do it. Everyone makes mistakes....I strive with every atom in my body not to make even one in any given match.
D1 college wrestlers down to 7th grade middle school wrestlers work their butts off to step onto that mat and compete. I owe them the highest level of expertise I can muster..to be in the proper position at all times, know the rules, know the criteria. Coaches work just as hard to get their kids ready to step onto that mat. They expect perfection. It isn't easy on anyones part.
“The results you achieve will be in direct proportion to the effort you apply.”
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v Edinboro Live Updates
Doug Noel added to this discussion on February 15, 2008
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v Edinboro Live Updates
Luke Moore added to this discussion on February 15, 2008
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Very well put and I think we can all say that we have no idea what the pressure feels like to be a D1 college referee.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v Edinboro Live Updates
Rex Holman added to this discussion on February 15, 2008
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Fred-
Thank you for taking the time to post an in depth perspective. It was great. Your passion for the sport and being a referee is evident.
As a fan and coach, it sometimes seems like calls will "make up for inequity" during the same match or a later match for that matter. I think it may just be a phenomena that corresponds to pattern recognition.
I am guilty of thinking that tOSU had calls benefit them last night. But, I have never walked a mile in your shoes nor do I aspire at this time. If my schedule ever lightens, I would enjoy taking your referee class as I know I would make me a better coach.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v Edinboro Live Updates
Fred Feeney added to this discussion on February 15, 2008
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Rex,
Appreciate your comments.
Depending on which side of the gym one sits, it very well may look like this call or that call is going with you or against you, but when you look at it with eyes that are not connected to the heart..you see a different different picture.
My spring class starts March 10th, by the way :)
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State v Edinboro Live Updates
Cliff Cahill added to this discussion on February 15, 2008
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oh but for Matside - up the kister with the BTN - oh sure all the non-matside veiwers and all non-Warner people got to see a few wrestling events this year plus the university got 7.3 million - BUT at the same time all this great year of OSU wrestling lost to but memories with no public film archives of total event with all of the good and the bad not available for summer replays or years to come classic presentations - let me say this that the zoom in would have shown the control and Fred's wrestle were in complete agreement as Matside coverage was with 2 cameras angles and I had but 2 rows from the action and have pefect and non-biased eyes of what would have been one Matside camera of the pure facts of film
was a nice touch to allow so many seniors to have their last night on the mat in St. John
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