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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Matches...
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 16, 2008
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Bob: I am aware that wrestling budgets are not the same as those for football and basketball. My suggestion of regionalizing national qualifiers was made in a vacuum. I recognize that the practicalities are tricky. But, I think a Big Ten qualifier that sees several good wrestlers get hurt---Garrett Scott, Lance Palmer, C.P. Schlatter, Roger Kish just to name the ones that leap to mind--is not a good thing either. Palmer had to wrestle Jenkins twice, plus Lang, Patascil and one other bout. That's five matches in a little over 24 hours and four of them were against AA caliber opponents. That's brutal and unfair.
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Matches...
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 16, 2008
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Hank posts, "I think a Big Ten qualifier that sees several good wrestlers get hurt---Garrett Scott, Lance Palmer, C.P. Schlatter, Roger Kish just to name the ones that leap to mind--is not a good thing either."
well Hank,
thats why they signed to wrestle in the Big Ten and not the MAC or ACC, they wanted the tough Big Ten comp. AND they liked the LUXURY of 72 NCAA quals the Big Ten gets. ----
also keep in mind Dustin Schlatter and Roger Kish have been out injured much of the season anyway, cant blame that on the Big Ten conference tourn. Conference tourn are here to stay, coaches want them, fans want them, and though i cannot say for sure i am guessing the wrestlers by and large want them, too.
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Matches...
Ken Ramsey Sr. added to this discussion on March 16, 2008
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"Hank posts, "I think a Big Ten qualifier that sees several good wrestlers get hurt---Garrett Scott, Lance Palmer, C.P. Schlatter, Roger Kish just to name the ones that leap to mind--is not a good thing either."
well Hank,
thats why they signed to wrestle in the Big Ten and not the MAC or ACC, they wanted the tough Big Ten comp. AND they liked the LUXURY of 72 NCAA quals the Big Ten gets. ----
also keep in mind Dustin Schlatter and Roger Kish have been out injured much of the season anyway, cant blame that on the Big Ten conference tourn. Conference tourn are here to stay, coaches want them, fans want them, and though I cannot say for sure I am guessing the wrestlers by and large want them, too."
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Bob:
I think you will find most choose the B10 because 7-8 qualify for the NCAAs, not so they can wrestle the best 3, 4 or more times during the season. I agree with Hank, a better qualifying system would enhance the prestige of wrestling and help it gain more fan interest. Maybe it would also stop all the forfiets for seeding positioning during the dual season and make the dual season mean something.
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Matches...
Maggie Lamantia added to this discussion on March 16, 2008
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Matches...
Dan Cosimi added to this discussion on March 16, 2008
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In college, there should be regionals not divided up by location but based on seeds like they do to split the sectionals in the central district in Ohio.
For example:
#1 gets the first choice of whichever regional they want to attend... #2 gets the next choice... then #3... and so on.
It should also be this way in the entire state for high school - not just the central district.
Talk about dream matches? Well we can get better matches if we let the best kids advance by splitting up the best teams. It's in their best interest.
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Matches...
Josh Lowe added to this discussion on March 17, 2008
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Quote from Dan Cosimi's post:
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"In college, there should be regionals not divided up by location but based on seeds like they do to split the sectionals in the central district in Ohio.
For example:
#1 gets the first choice of whichever regional they want to attend... #2 gets the next choice... then #3... and so on.
It should also be this way in the entire state for high school - not just the central district.
Talk about dream matches? Well we can get better matches if we let the best kids advance by splitting up the best teams. It's in their best interest."
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$$$$$$$$ - not happening
Need some sort of geography to it to help contain travel budgets unless NCAA willing to subsidize. But with the NCAA's unwillingness to go beyond 330 at the DI level (# participants NCAA tournament), the chances of that are nil.
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Matches...
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 17, 2008
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Mr Ramsey posts, "think you will find most choose the B10 because 7-8 qualify for the NCAAs, not so they can wrestle the best 3, 4 or more times during the season."
--- Ken, thats what i said, that wrestlers choose Big Ten in large part for the LUXURY of 72 quals
.
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Mr Ramsey posts, "I agree with Hank, a better qualifying system would enhance the prestige of wrestling and help it gain more fan interest. Maybe it would also stop all the forfiets for seeding positioning during the dual season and make the dual season mean something."
---- Ken, i think fans by and large like conference tourn.
i know Coaches like them
, and regionals received little support when discused by NWCA last year.
Ken, AND the dual season WILL mean something next year
when NCAA quals are handed out on the basis of conference strength during the season, will Not be based anymore on past performance. Its a new era starting next season.
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Matches...
Ken Ramsey Sr. added to this discussion on March 18, 2008
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Bob:
I will attach a proposal (If able.) that I worked on earlier in the year, I think something like this would be beneficial to wrestling's survival.
Ken
Bob:
The transfer from excel to word changed the format, send me your e-mail and I will forward an original in word and excel.
Ken
The great sport of Division 1, as we know it, is dying. If we want it to survive we must do something to stop the cancer that continues to eat away at its core. Wrestling is the World's oldest sport and anyone who has been involved with wrestling knows that the individuals competing work as hard or harder than competitors from any other sport. The life lessons of hard work, integrity and loyalty have been the backbone of the
sport of wrestling. Many of the World's great leaders in politics, business and education were wrestlers.
Many in the wrestling world blame Title IX for its downfall, but I think wrestling needs to look in the mirror at itself. What have we done to stop the cancer? Nothing! Everyone seems to have the greediness to
only look out for their own interest. No serious change to the development of the sport has happened in many years. Colleges who have had wrestling for 40-50 years are dropping their programs, because the
Athletic Directors and Presidents see the decline in the sport and when they need to drop a sport wrestling is the logical choice.
What is wrong with wrestling? I have listed some of the major problems I think have contributed to the wrestling decline.
1. Weak conference structures. (leagues)
2. Unfair NCAA qualifying system.
3. Rules that are confusing to the average fan.
4. Poor promotion of the sport.
5. Not fielding entire line-ups for duals.
6. Wrestlers dropping from tournaments when they are beaten.
7. Wrestlers not competing in tournaments or duals when they may hurt their rankings by wrestling.
8. Coaches badgering officials who call stalling to promote action.
9. Scheduling duals and tournament to conflict with local events.
10. Not becoming involved in their community.
11. Abuse of the redshirt system.
The following plan would help wrestling start to regain some of its prestige, it may need adjustments; but it would give us a great start in the right direction.
Ken Ramsey Sr. 7185 Periwinkle Ct.
Brooksville, FL 34602-7713
614-439-3520
e-mail: kramsey2@tampabay.rr.com
The following would be a good format to use for a Nationwide League System. The system would keep the current leagues in tact, yet add teams where the leagues were too small by joining some of the smaller leagues together to make the leagues viable for a qualifying system. Each league would have a League Tournament with the top eight (8) placers per weight class qualifying to the four Regionals. The Regionals would be seeded by league each year #1 through #8 (East, West, North & South) by the NWCA with input from the NCAA. (Example: 1 & 8 would be in the East, 2 & 7 in the North, 3 & 6 in the South and 4 & 5 in the West. This would help the wrestlers who belong in the Nationals meet their goals no matter how weak their team or league is. Sixteen (16) wrestlers would be in each weight class at the Regionals of which eight (8) would qualify for the Nationals, making thirty two (32) wrestlers per weight class at Nationals. This would make it fair across the board allowing many of the deserving wrestlers on weak teams or in weak leagues to meet their individual goals. The League and Regional Tournaments would give wrestling a system to promote their product. The seeding system at the Regionals would be exciting if the seeds were rotated
each year to give each region the opportunity to see the best teams (A "Spread the Wealth System".)
EAST NORTH NORTHEAST MIDEAST
Buffalo (NY) Boston University (MA) American University
(DC) Bucknell (PA)
Bloomsburg (PA) Binghamton (NY) Army Military Academy. (NY) Duquesne University (PA)
Central Michigan (MI) Campbell (NC) Brown University (RI) East Stroudsburg (PA)
Edinboro University (PA)
Clarion University
(PA) Columbia University (NY) Cornell University (NY)
Cleveland State (OH) Drexel University (PA) Delaware State (DE) Franklin & Marshall (PA)
Eastern Michigan (MI) Geo Mason (VA) Harvard University(MA) Gardner Webb (NC)
Kent State (OH) Hofstra University (NY) Liberty University(VA)
Princeton University (NJ) Lehigh University(PA)
Millersville University (PA)
Lockhaven (PA) Old Dominion (VA)
Northern Illinois (OH) Rider University (NY) Rutgers (NJ) Naval Academy (MD)
Ohio University (OH) Sacred Heart (CT) Wagner (NY) University of Penn (PA)
Pittsburgh (PA)
West Virginia (WV)
MIDWEST SOUTH NORTHWEST WEST
Illinois (IL) Appalachia State (NC) Air Force Academy (CO) Arizona State (AZ)
Indiana University (IN) The Citadel (SC) Iowa State (IA) Boise State (ID)
Iowa (IA) Davidson College (NC) Missouri (MO) Cal-Bakersfield (CA)
Michigan (MI) Duke (NC) Nebraska (NE) Cal-Fullerton (CA)
Michigan State (MI) Maryland (MD) North Dakota State (ND) Cal-Poly (CA)
Minnesota (MN) North Carolina (NC) Northern Colorado (CO) Oregon State (OR)
Northwestern (IL) North Carolina State
(NC) Northern Iowa (IA) Portland State (OR)
Ohio State (OH) UNC-Greensboro (NC) Oklahoma (OK) Stanford (CA)
Penn State (PA) UT-Chattanooga (TN) Oklahoma State (OK) UC-Davis (CA)
Purdue University (IN) Virginia (VA) South Dakota State (SD) Wyoming (WY)
Wisconsin (WI) Virginia Tech (VA) Utah Valley State (UT)
VMI (VA)
REGIONAL SETUP: Year one.
EAST NORTH
Seeds 1 & 8 Seeds 2 & 7
REGIONAL SETUP: Year two.
EAST NORTH
Seeds 4 & 5 Seeds 1 & 8
REGIONAL SETUP: Year three.
EAST NORTH
Seeds 3 & 6 Seeds 4 & 5
REGIONAL SETUP: Year four.
EAST NORTH
Seeds 2 & 7 Seeds 3 & 6
SOUTH WEST
Seeds 3 & 6 Seeds 4 & 5
SOUTH WEST
Seeds 2 & 7 Seeds 3 & 6
SOUTH WEST
Seeds 1 & 8 Seeds 2 & 7
SOUTH WEST
Seeds 4 & 5 Seeds 1 & 8
There would be League, Regional and National Champions thus promoting wrestling more in the manner of basketball.
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Matches...
Ken Ramsey Sr. added to this discussion on March 19, 2008
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The following adjusts the change to "Word Format" from the posting format on the post above.
8 Leagues (Minimum 10 teams, maximum 12 teams per league.)
4 Regionals (2 Leagues of rotating seeds per Regional.)
NCAA Proposal for Leagues to qualify for Regionals. 8 wrestlers for each weight class would qualify for regionals from each league. Two League teams would make up a Regional making 16 wrestlers per weight class. The League seeding for each team would decide its Regional placing.
EAST (12 teams)
Buffalo (NY)
Bloomsburg (PA)
CMU (MI)
Clarion (PA)
Cleveland St (OH)
EMU (MI)
Kent State (OH)
Lockhaven (PA)
Northern Illinois (IL)
Ohio University (OH)
Pittsburgh (PA)
West Virginia University (WV)
NORTH (10 teams)
Boston University (MA)
Binghamton (NY)
Campbell (NC)
Columbia University (NY)
Drexel University (PA)
George Mason (VA)
Hofstra University (NY)
Old Dominion (VA)
Rider University (NY)
Sacred Heart (CT)
NORTHEAST (10 teams)
American University (DC)
Army (NY)
Brown University (RI)
Cornell University (NY)
Delaware State (DE)
Harvard University (MA)
Liberty University (VA)
Princeton University (NJ)
Rutgers (NJ)
Wagner (NY)
MIDEAST (10 teams)
Bucknell (PA)
Duquesne University (PA)
East Stroudsburg (PA)
Edinboro University (PA)
Franklin & Marshall (PA)
Gardner Webb (NC)
Lehigh University (PA)
Millersville University (PA)
Navel Academy (MD)
Penn (PA)
MIDWEST (Big 10) (11 teams)
University of Illinois (IL)
Indiana University (IN)
Iowa (IA)
University of Michigan (MI)
Michigan State University (MI)
Minnesota (MN)
Northwestern University (IL)
Ohio State University (OH)
Penn State University (PA)
Purdue University (IN)
University of Wisconsin (WI)
SOUTH (12 teams)
Appalachian State (NC)
The Citadel (SC)
Davidson College (NC)
Duke University (NC)
University of Maryland (MD)
University of North Carolina (NC)
North Carolina State (NC)
UNC-Greensboro (NC)
UT-Chattanooga (TN)
Virginia (VA)
Virginia Tech (VA)
VMI (VA)
NORTHWEST (11 teams)
Air Force Academy (CO)
Iowa State (IA)
Missouri (MO)
University of Nebraska (NE)
North Dakota State (ND)
Northern Colorado (CO)
Northern Iowa (IA)
University of Oklahoma (OK)
Oklahoma State University (OK)
South Dakota State (SD)
Utah Valley State (UT)
WEST (10 teams)
Arizona State University (AZ)
Boise State University (ID)
Cal State-Bakersfield (CA)
Cal State-Fullerton (CA)
Cal State-Poly (CA)
Oregon State University (OR)
Portland State University (OR)
Stanford University (CA)
UC-Davis (CA)
Wyoming (WY)
8 wrestlers per each weight class from the Regionals would qualify for Nationals making 32 wrestlers per weight class.
REGIONAL SETUP (Year one seeds)
EAST 1 & 8
NORTH 2 & 7
SOUTH 3 & 6
WEST 4 & 5
REGIONAL SETUP (Year two seeds)
EAST 4 & 5
NORTH 1 & 8
SOUTH 2 & 7
WEST 3 & 6
REGIONAL SETUP (Year three seeds)
EAST 3 & 6
NORTH 4 & 5
SOUTH 1 & 8
WEST 2 & 7
REGIONAL SETUP (Year four seeds)
EAST 2 & 7
NORTH 3 & 6
SOUTH 4 & 5
WEST 1 & 8
Cycle begins over on year five.
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Last edited by Ken Ramsey Sr. on March 21, 2008; edited 2 times in total
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Matches...
Ken Ramsey Sr. added to this discussion on March 21, 2008
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All of the above would be enhanced by the NCAA also changing the wrestling season to start in mid-January after the bowl games and hold the NCAA Tournament in early May.
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