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Discussion Topic: Will the Monroeville 4 be the next 4x State Champs?
Mark Palumbo added to this discussion on March 6, 2008
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There are so many great 3 timers out there. All it takes is one bad match or bad injury. Phillips has awesome position. He was never in a bad spot against Roddy, but let's see who moves in, or what school he goes to next, or if his school changes divisions. Can I see a four timer coming from this group? YES! can I see all of them doing it? Maybe, but the odds are not in thier favor. I wish them luck and thank them for their efforts. It will be fun to watch and talk about. This is a tough sport, just sitting on a mat you can get hurt. you can get hurt walking across the street. I truly hope they make a run at it.
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Discussion Topic: Will the Monroeville 4 be the next 4x State Champs?
Dan Ransick added to this discussion on March 6, 2008
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I see the odds in their favor. Look at the 119 DIII weight at the beginning of the year compared to the end of the year. When people here the name Stieber, they move up or down. Both Sergent and Opfer went up to 125 after realizing that they had no chance against Stieber.
I say the odds are only going to get better for them as time continues. People will not want to be in those weights that they occupy and will do whatever it takes to get out of those weights.
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Discussion Topic: Will the Monroeville 4 be the next 4x State Champs?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 6, 2008
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Quote from Mark Palumbo's post:
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"There are so many great 3 timers out there. All it takes is one bad match or bad injury. Phillips has awesome position. He was never in a bad spot against Roddy, but let's see who moves in, or what school he goes to next, or if his school changes divisions. Can I see a four timer coming from this group? YES! can I see all of them doing it? Maybe, but the odds are not in thier favor. I wish them luck and thank them for their efforts. It will be fun to watch and talk about. This is a tough sport, just sitting on a mat you can get hurt. you can get hurt walking across the street. I truly hope they make a run at it."
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Why would he be going to another school next? Do you mean college?
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Discussion Topic: Will the Monroeville 4 be the next 4x State Champs?
Mark Palumbo added to this discussion on March 7, 2008
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All I'm saying is there are many factors. Kids may change schools (parents move due to jobs), schools may change divisions (more males may attend) or another school may drop down. A stud may move in from out of state. Another freshman phenom may pop up in the next 3 years. let's see if they can win 2 as a group before we start thinking about 4.
Then there are the other factors that I don't wish on anybody: academic trouble, school rules, drugs, etc.
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Discussion Topic: Will the Monroeville 4 be the next 4x State Champs?
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 8, 2008
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Mark Palumbo, i agree with you, odds are never in favor of anyone going 4 years undefeated, or winning 4 state titles either even in Div III.
---If u can lose, u can lose at state too
, even in Div III.
Optimism always gushes forth when a phenom appears on the scene.
Example, i recall on this forum some saying that after he won the NCAA title his freshman year that Dustin Schlatter would never lose in college again--- well that for sure was wrong, about 4 times wrong, and still counting. And fact is many savvy coaches thought Dustin Schlatter was the best Ohio hs wrestler they had seen-- and i don't disagree, but even Dustin lost 3 or 4 times in high school. If u can lose, u can lose at state too.
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Discussion Topic: Will the Monroeville 4 be the next 4x State Champs?
Mark Palumbo added to this discussion on March 10, 2008
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Bob,
You are correct. Any time a true freshman wins NCAAs the hype starts. Is he going to be able to win four in four years. To the best of my knowledge only one person won four in four years (Sanderson). I think Pat Smith won four in five years and there may be one or two more but they slip my mind at the moment. Some of the reasons (I mentioned in a different post) I don't believe in the redshirting of a kid that can start in college are the same reasons that it is really tough to win four state championships. This is the toughest sport in the world and you never know what the future holds.
People make choices, good, bad and different. One of the monroe kids may want to try out for the swim team. It would be a shame for the wrestling fans, but it's his choice. Perfect example is Harry Lester. People were saying he was a lock to win multiple NCAA championships. He did not win any. He was not an NCAA All-American. Not because he did not have the talent. Most would agree he could do anything he put his mind to on a wrestling mat. He just made different choices. People second guessed him all over the place, but he knew what he wanted to do and it seems to be working out for him. He will be in the conversation when we talk about best ever to come out of Ohio. Don't you think?
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Discussion Topic: Will the Monroeville 4 be the next 4x State Champs?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 10, 2008
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Pat Milkovich won as a true freshman and a true soph, but then lost in the finals the next two years.
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Discussion Topic: Will the Monroeville 4 be the next 4x State Champs?
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 10, 2008
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yes
Pat Milkovich
of Maple Heights Ohio was 4X finalist, lost his last 2 years
both in OT
. He and
Lee Kemp
came as close as any one could to being the first 4X champ in college Div I or whatever they called it back then --- which Pat Smith did become the first 4Xer.
Kemp of Chardon Ohio lost as a freshman
in OT on referees decision
, what a way to lose, to returning champ Yagla from Iowa. Hellickson always swore Kemp was screwed, and he told the ref that he screwed Kemp out of being the first 4Xer-- but the ref didnt understand then, Russ was perhaps right.
someone posted, "To the best of my knowledge only one person did 4 in 4 years (Sanderson)." ---- not true,
Sanderson was a redshirt freshman, he and Joe Heskett part of a great recruiting class both redshirted that year right out of high school.
So i think no one has won 4 Div I college titles in 4 years, still.
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Discussion Topic: Will the Monroeville 4 be the next 4x State Champs?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 10, 2008
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This conversation makes a great point about how incredibly hard it is to win four titles. At the collegiate level, Dustin had the talent but was hurt last year and has missed a significant part of this season with injury. Anyone watching his match closely yesterday saw a guy who's hamstring started hurting him as that match progressed. (then, again, Metcalf has a way of finding your weak spots due to the pressure he brings on an opponent).
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Discussion Topic: Will the Monroeville 4 be the next 4x State Champs?
Ben Roerig added to this discussion on March 10, 2008
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One potential problem I could see with the Stiebers and Tessari is that being so close in weight, two of them could end up at the same weight, forcing one up or down where they may be less likely to win a title.
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Discussion Topic: Will the Monroeville 4 be the next 4x State Champs?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 10, 2008
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It is interesting that Pat only won once in HS, yet did what he did at MSU.
Hard to call him a "late bloomer" since he had the advantage of being a Milkovich all of his life, and was always overshadowed by Tom (and others) at Maple. But he wound up being one of the best collegiate wrestlers ever yet (with NO redshirting) seems to seldom get spoken about anymore.
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Discussion Topic: Will the Monroeville 4 be the next 4x State Champs?
Jack Muni added to this discussion on March 10, 2008
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I saw Phillips at Ironman & Brecksville, plus saw his States video. What amazes me, along with the fact he's doing this at 171 lbs., is how he moves from 1st shot to 2nd & 3rd moves with such fluidity and feel for where he's at. Just amazing. I hope Chris & his 3 teammates wrestle this summer against kids from around the country.
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Discussion Topic: Will the Monroeville 4 be the next 4x State Champs?
Chue Vue added to this discussion on March 12, 2008
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Quote from Jack Muni's post:
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"I saw Phillips at Ironman & Brecksville, plus saw his States video. What amazes me, along with the fact he's doing this at 171 lbs., is how he moves from 1st shot to 2nd & 3rd moves with such fluidity and feel for where he's at. Just amazing. I hope Chris & his 3 teammates wrestle this summer against kids from around the country."
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Jack, he's a young man wrestling in a senior's body and mindset!
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Discussion Topic: Will the Monroeville 4 be the next 4x State Champs?
Scott Shaw added to this discussion on March 12, 2008
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Bob, if I'm not mistaken, Heskett beat Sanderson that redshirt year in an Open. Just a little known fact about Heskett and Sanderson. Joe was very close to being a 3xer himself. Great recruiting by the great Bobby Douglas that year.
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Discussion Topic: Will the Monroeville 4 be the next 4x State Champs?
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 12, 2008
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if u look at high school, college and FILA achievements,
NO QUESTION Joe Heskett ranks just below only a very very few guys from Ohio----
maybe below only Kemp
???
in college he took 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, first--
his 3 total losses at 4 NCAA tourn were all in OT.
Then he almost wrestled for the gold last September. In hs Joe was 3xer and besides Sam Neider became only the 2nd Ohio kid to pin every opponent thru sectional, district, state. ALSO in 3 state tourn, Joe pinned 11 of 12, only Becks did not get pinned.
i'm dizzy from discussing Joe Heskett's accomplishments, they are truly at the ELITE level. Seems like a gentlemen, too, never heard him boast, never heard him complain.
Class
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