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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Alex Creech added to this discussion on August 14, 2020
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i'm on the same page as Brady and David, well said.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on August 15, 2020
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Quote from Jason L. Jackson's post:
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"I saw a post today from a Michigan podcast that indicated that the president of the university (Michigan) was a doctor who specializes in immunology. The president apparently voted to cancel the season.
The podcast was mad that the president of the university didn't consult with the players before voting.
In what society does an immunology specialist consult with 18-22 year old kinesiology majors to see what actions they should take? Our society is so broken that everyone thinks their opinion is the one that matters. A large portion of our society no longer trusts experts, because there are so many cranks out there blasting uninformed opinions based on something they saw on Facebook.
The truth is, the people most surprised by this move and upset about it are the ones who fought the infectious disease experts the whole time and contributed to the lengthening of the pandemic. But hey, we can't infringe on anyone's perceived liberty in the name of the greater good.
You reap what you sow. Unfortunately, we all have to reap what others have sowed in this circumstance. And those who refused to comply with a basic request like wearing a mask, will now blame something else, and won't learn a damn thing.
Maybe we'll get lucky and this will all just disappear like a certain prominent individual keeps saying, but I doubt it. Instead of wishing for a miracle, we should have been taking active steps to address the problem head on, not arguing with the experts and recommending blasts of ultraviolet light and injecting bleach into our lungs.
#RantOver
#Sorry"
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UM cardiologist claims B1G canceled football season using flawed study.
She doesn’t need to consult with them but you can’t fault them for wanting to get a second opinion.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on August 15, 2020
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Quote from Jason L. Jackson's post:
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"I saw a post today from a Michigan podcast that indicated that the president of the university (Michigan) was a doctor who specializes in immunology. The president apparently voted to cancel the season.
The podcast was mad that the president of the university didn't consult with the players before voting.
In what society does an immunology specialist consult with 18-22 year old kinesiology majors to see what actions they should take? Our society is so broken that everyone thinks their opinion is the one that matters. A large portion of our society no longer trusts experts, because there are so many cranks out there blasting uninformed opinions based on something they saw on Facebook.
The truth is, the people most surprised by this move and upset about it are the ones who fought the infectious disease experts the whole time and contributed to the lengthening of the pandemic. But hey, we can't infringe on anyone's perceived liberty in the name of the greater good.
You reap what you sow. Unfortunately, we all have to reap what others have sowed in this circumstance. And those who refused to comply with a basic request like wearing a mask, will now blame something else, and won't learn a damn thing.
Maybe we'll get lucky and this will all just disappear like a certain prominent individual keeps saying, but I doubt it. Instead of wishing for a miracle, we should have been taking active steps to address the problem head on, not arguing with the experts and recommending blasts of ultraviolet light and injecting bleach into our lungs.
#RantOver
#Sorry"
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UM cardiologist claims B1G canceled football season using flawed study.
She doesn’t need to consult with them but you can’t fault them for wanting to get a second opinion.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Mike Stann added to this discussion on August 16, 2020
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What has happened in my country. We are arguing if its okay to hold sports while over 170,000 folks are dead and going up 1,000 a day. I'm not surprised that in this country so many place money over human life. We are a capitalist country. Because make no mistake this is about money. Life is dangerous and we will all die, tell that to the 170,000 dead. What happened to taking care of of our fellow man? I don't believe the doctors so I won't wear a mask no matter who it hurts. High school and colleges have a fiduciary duty to provide a safe environment while they have your kids. And then there is the risk reward. We get a little entertainment, the schools get a little money and a wrestler dies from the virus, what then? Do we get the required apology. oh I was wrong and I'm so sorry for your loss. Doesn't replace your child does it? We put up with gas rationing, meat rationing, no manufacturing of major home appliances, travel restrictions and many other hardships during World War II. I'd hate to see what todays adults would do with that. Look many folk feel they can drive and drink just fine. Do we let them drive because that's what they believe or do we look at statistics and deaths and say no you can't. As to docs disagreeing all I say is how many of you still believe those doctors the tobacco industry hired to tell you that you won't get cancer if you smoke?
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Alex Creech added to this discussion on August 16, 2020
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Quote from Mike Stann's post:
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"What has happened in my country. We are arguing if its okay to hold sports while over 170,000 folks are dead and going up 1,000 a day. I'm not surprised that in this country so many place money over human life. We are a capitalist country."
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No one is forcing anyone to place sports. It's by choice.
Here are some #'s for you.
3 million people die a year in the US. Leading causes (and these are every single year, not one offs)
Heart disease: 647,457
Cancer: 599,108
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
Diabetes: 83,564
Influenza and Pneumonia: 55,672
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 50,633
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173
6% of covid deaths are covid only. If someone dies for any reason and happens to have covid, it's a covid death. Why? I'm sure partly because hospitals get extra $ for anyone who has covid. If we were to count flu deaths the way we are counting covid deaths, the yearly # would be alot higher.
233 million americans overweight. 115 million of those are obese. The 2 leading underlying conditions for covid deaths are heart disease and diabetes. A majority of those conditions can be prevented (not type 1 diabetes) by eating healthy and exercising. We are the most unhealthy society on the planet.
Where's all the outrage and concern of over these other causes of death that have been happening for years and years? No, this covid hysteria and division is almost entirely political.
I'm not trying to be callous about death. Any death is sad, but it happens. You take what precautions you can and hope for the best. Those precautions are subjective. What is risky for some is not for others. Is 40 million people out of jobs, suicide, depression, substance abuse, domestic violence, violent crime all on the rise and all the other afflictions that are occurring because of some of the covid precautions worth it? I say no, others say yes.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
David Brown added to this discussion on August 16, 2020
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The fallacy is to assume there is or ever was a safe option. There was never a scenario where people would not die. Not shutting down leads to deaths. Shutting down leads to deaths.
It is not a zero-sum game. The death and destruction from shutting down will take time to calculate. The spike in overdoses, suicides and murders are just the start. The decline in health from not getting exercise, activity and sunshine must also be considered.
Then there is the financial and psychological loss. Quality of life versus life has always been a worthy debate. In my work, palliative care, we have this debate every day. "Living" is not always the greatest good. In palliative care the goal is not to preserve life, but to preserve quality of life and to prepare for a good death.
Nations make similar decisions on a macro level every day. The tension between liberty and safety is an eternal one. Those who lean toward liberty are not calloused. Those who lean toward safety are not cowards. Intelligent people can assess the same threat differently. Intelligent people can look at the same risk and make very different decisions.
I think the players, their parents and the coaches - the people with the most skin in the game, should be able to make the choice.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Bruce Andrews added to this discussion on August 16, 2020
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Quote from David Brown's post:
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"I think the players, their parents and the coaches - the people with the most skin in the game, should be able to make the choice."
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The administrators have skin in the game in regards to liability.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
David Brown added to this discussion on August 16, 2020
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Yes, the same administrators who are bringing kids back to classrooms. The % of Covid transmissions occurring outdoors is fractional. Makes no sense to me. IMO the other conferences are being cautious too but not rash.
SEC, ACC decided not to burn the house in order to kill the cockroach.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on August 16, 2020
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i'm with Creech & Brown. of course we can always keep closing things down and pay for it with printing Trillions more $ that we don't have.
admin skin in game? --- by the time long term effects, if any, are known, the admin will be long gone. People will still die of something. 50-60,000 a year die on nations roads, does that keep us from driving ?
Doctor i quoted on previous page says weve been dealing with myocarditus for long time, players better off under close supervision that Ohio St med staff could provide.
but we will see, 3 conf are playing while 2 decided not too. Year from now assessing EVERYTHING, who fared better?
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on August 18, 2020
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Ohio State will not be playing football this fall, but Ohio high schools will.
In a press conference on Tuesday, Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine announced that the state is moving forward with all high school sports – contact and non-contact sports – in the fall of 2020.
DeWine said that him and his staff have spoken with athletes, parents, coaches, medical health experts, superintendents and others to evaluate whether or not a season should go forward, and on Tuesday the decision became official that the state will allow all sports – including youth and middle school sports – to be conducted in the fall.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on August 18, 2020
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Kevin Warren the B10 Commissioner’s son plays for Mississippi State so he must not be to concerned.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Mike Stann added to this discussion on August 19, 2020
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Just want to raise a couple of points in regards to the death issue. Yes death happens but in every case mentioned in this discussion we take mitigating steps. As to cancer and heart disease those deaths are a result of either hereditary or life style choices, not caused by others behavior. When we learned secondhand smoking caused cancer it became almost non existent because we passed laws designed to protect all of us. Deaths on our roads are 50,000 a year and we have all sorts of laws about speeding, driving while high etc. Who knows what the death toll would be without those.
As to it being up to the sporting community to decide would be fine except that they are not the only ones affected. Do the minor siblings have a say? the grandparents and friends of the wrestlers and their coaches, families etc? They all well might be affected by what happens at the event level. And exactly how do we wrestle safely? Can't social distance, how to keep a face mask on. What about the staff needed to open and run the building? Notre Dame just shut down, schools in Ga. shut down after only a week of being open. how can we have sports if we can't keep the schools and universities open?
Look I can say nobody loves sport more than I. I love competing (the sports I can compete in at my age) and I love watching. But I see folks dying simply because we as a nation can't come together, and do what we need to do to save our fellow citizens. It seems as if we have sacrificed the social contract to the alter of individual freedom and 172,000 of our fellows are dead, 1,000 more every day and no end in sight.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
David Brown added to this discussion on August 19, 2020
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Mike it is difficult to find analogies that hold up. Your 2nd hand smoke analogy is one of the stronger ones. Still we do not shut down restaurants and bars. We found a way to stay open. BTW I was opposed to the ban on smoking indoors in restaurants and bars. I thought businesses should be able to choose who they wanted as customers. Casinos do it right I think. Equally I oppose seatbelt laws once drivers turn 21 but that is just me.
Back to 2nd hand smoke. If someone is smoking outdoors or at a park I move away. I have personal agency and I can move away. Their liberty trumps my annoyance. My alcoholic clients do the same. They must remain vigilant to avoid people and places with alcohol. When someone brings alcohol near them it is my clients who must remove themselves, not the other way around.
When I am old and another virus hits (God forbid) I will beg society not to commit seppuka again as it is now for my sake and the other vulnerable folks. I will quarantine myself, not expect the world to quarantine.
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Discussion Topic: If the rumors are true...
Roe Fox added to this discussion on August 19, 2020
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I waited to post because there are a lot of great thoughts here on both sides and I have been (blessedly) swamped at work. I was all for the massive first stoppage. See what it is, get a handle on it, and step forward. Still think DeWine was right.
What has disturbed me is whatever numbers are cited can be critiqued. Floyd was a Covid death? I saw some evil human being kill him and it had nothing to do with Covid.
My law partners brother is older, long term wheelchair bound, compromised immune system, developed an incredible infection, went to ICU, got Covid and. . .lived?
I’m usually of the “if it saves one life it’s worth it” mentality.” But what if Covid isn’t the cause of most of these deaths? I read an article about the “maybe” long term effects of Covid. Is that real or the product of the media thinking people aren’t buying the numbers so let’s talk about hypothetical long term effects?
To those who have suggested this has been too politicized, you are right, in my opinion.
We have constantly reassured our 10 year old she is safe. Still, her friends talk and she hears other adults. She is sometimes very scared.
I’m still with DeWine. He is listening, assessing and making judgment calls about things none of us are certain about. But he is at least listening and not just reacting.
When does this end? Let’s give life a shot again. The worst thing is to live in fear. If it doesn’t work shut it down again. I think any reasonable person knows high school football is going to be problematic. It’s not the games. It’s the after parties.
It’s not Justin Fields. It’s the 110th guy on the team who isn’t going to play so why not hit a party?
As to masks, common sense says they help, even to a minimal degree. But the issue for me is if we can get back to work with them legally and make our friends and coworkers feel better, why not? What if they made no impact but my friends felt better being around me because I had one on, why not extend the courtesy? I can stick my middle finger up to government and say I have my own personal opinion on masks.
Or I can love my neighbor.
And no one hates those masks more than me.
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