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Discussion Topic: NCAA
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 21, 2021
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There is riding to turn and riding to ride. Two very different things. Riding to ride is in effect a way to game the system.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 21, 2021
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Chris Henderson--understood.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 21, 2021
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"There is riding to turn and riding to ride. Two very different things. Riding to ride is in effect a way to game the system."
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And it should be addressed.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA
Casey Talbott added to this discussion on March 21, 2021
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"Brooks gets a gift stalling point then flees the mat and no call.
But Starocci runs for 6 minutes and no call."
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Could not agree more.
Brooks not only turned and intentionally dove out of bounds, but he grabbed the edge of the mat. Isn’t that a point? But I don’t know the rules. So I’ll shut up now.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on March 21, 2021
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Quote from Christopher Henderson's post:
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"It was meant tongue in cheek, and I might also add Oklahoma State to the joke. They have gotten some favorable calls over the years. Johnny Hendricks got some legendary calls.
Watching the Ferrari vs. Bonaccorsi the ESPN announcer actually said "Why isn't what Ferrari is doing called stalling?". I laughed out loud when I heard that."
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Good enough, I understand.
BTW, am really amazed by some of the non-calls by officials last night. You mention Ferrari (which I agree with) but I saw Brooks run for 15-20 seconds with no call. I saw Steveson, in earlier rounds, just lay on his opponent for the last 15 to 30 seconds of a match with NO attempt to turn or improve and nothing is called. I am sorry but those were stalls plain and simple. I can hardly wait to ask our local NCAA official about this.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 21, 2021
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"
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Quote from Christopher Henderson's post:
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"It was meant tongue in cheek, and I might also add Oklahoma State to the joke. They have gotten some favorable calls over the years. Johnny Hendricks got some legendary calls.
Watching the Ferrari vs. Bonaccorsi the ESPN announcer actually said "Why isn't what Ferrari is doing called stalling?". I laughed out loud when I heard that."
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Good enough, I understand.
BTW, am really amazed by some of the non-calls by officials last night. You mention Ferrari (which I agree with) but I saw Brooks run for 15-20 seconds with no call. I saw Steveson, in earlier rounds, just lay on his opponent for the last 15 to 30 seconds of a match with NO attempt to turn or improve and nothing is called. I am sorry but those were stalls plain and simple. I can hardly wait to ask our local NCAA official about this."
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ie. Gable lying on guys for last 15 to 30 seconds. If bottom man concedes and is lying flat, then just let the time roll and end the match. Just my $0.02 as I see that particular event as a different scenario.
I love folkstyle — but dang, some matches this weekend made me desire Freestyle more. Refs rarely called stalling in the guys who would put it in circle, backstep, circle, backstep gear. How in anybody’s mind would Courtney at 125 only get dinged 2x in that match?
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Discussion Topic: NCAA
Drew Taylor added to this discussion on March 22, 2021
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Gable Steveson hurting the sport? Get out of here. If he wants to lay on an opponent to run out the clock in a butt-whoopin' I'm all for it.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA
Mike Stann added to this discussion on March 22, 2021
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"
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Quote from Christopher Henderson's post:
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"It was meant tongue in cheek, and I might also add Oklahoma State to the joke. They have gotten some favorable calls over the years. Johnny Hendricks got some legendary calls.
Watching the Ferrari vs. Bonaccorsi the ESPN announcer actually said "Why isn't what Ferrari is doing called stalling?". I laughed out loud when I heard that."
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Good enough, I understand.
BTW, am really amazed by some of the non-calls by officials last night. You mention Ferrari (which I agree with) but I saw Brooks run for 15-20 seconds with no call. I saw Steveson, in earlier rounds, just lay on his opponent for the last 15 to 30 seconds of a match with NO attempt to turn or improve and nothing is called. I am sorry but those were stalls plain and simple. I can hardly wait to ask our local NCAA official about this."
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ie. Gable lying on guys for last 15 to 30 seconds. If bottom man concedes and is lying flat, then just let the time roll and end the match. Just my $0.02 as I see that particular event as a different scenario.
I love folkstyle — but dang, some matches this weekend made me desire Freestyle more. Refs rarely called stalling in the guys who would put it in circle, backstep, circle, backstep gear. How in anybody’s mind would Courtney at 125 only get dinged 2x in that match?"
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I think that the problem is refs are reluctant to call stalling (or reverse a decision) especially if the guy is a favorite to win. More stalling calls would result in more action. It also should be called earlier (first period). A warning at the 20 second mark and everyone knows that there will not be another call in that match. Pretty much gives the one stalling free rein to continue. As to the brick I'm with the poster who said get rid of it. The most egregious errors don't get fixed yet it gives someone a chance to get a point that wasn't called I.e. Mark Hall vs Valencia. so all it really is doing is serving as a rest period for a tiring wrestler, interrupts the flow of the match. When OSU threw the brick in Sasso's match I immediately said "it looked like two to me but there is no way they will reverse and take away a win by O'Connor. I think both the stalling and reversal decisions goes to the heart of refs are just really reluctant to decide a match in the NCAAs. I agree Brady, Courtney could have been dinged twice in the first period!
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Discussion Topic: NCAA
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on March 22, 2021
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Quote from Drew Taylor's post:
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"Gable Steveson hurting the sport? Get out of here. If he wants to lay on an opponent to run out the clock in a butt-whoopin' I'm all for it."
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I would assume that was pointed at what I wrote?
I don't recall writing that Steveson is hurting the sport and that certainly is not what I meant.
If you think laying on his opponent, no matter the time or score, is "wrestling", we have a VERY different take on what wrestling really is. Riding parallel is not wrestling.
Out of curiosity, how large does the margin have to be in order to allow what you are "all for:"?
By not making the call that is so obviously there, the opportunity to score is taken away from the opponent. Is that fair to him?
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Discussion Topic: NCAA
Casey Talbott added to this discussion on March 22, 2021
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"
I would assume that was pointed at what I wrote?
I don't recall writing that Steveson is hurting the sport and that certainly is not what I meant.
If you think laying on his opponent, no matter the time or score, is "wrestling", we have a VERY different take on what wrestling really is. Riding parallel is not wrestling.
Out of curiosity, how large does the margin have to be in order to allow what you are "all for:"?
By not making the call that is so obviously there, the opportunity to score is taken away from the opponent. Is that fair to him?"
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Interesting.
I've seen Gable do that in the bottom position, too - just sit there, in his referee's position, for maybe 15 to 20 seconds, and not move. At all. Kinda like he's sending the message that he's an immovable object. Which he may well be. But that's stalling, too. Because he's got an obligation to attempt to get out, or to at least improve his position. Right?
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