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Discussion Topic: TOSU v. Cornell
Drew Taylor added to this discussion on January 6, 2024
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Let’s not lose sight of the fact Paddy is having a decent season. He’s losing only to really good competition.
Last night he had a shot countered for a seven-point move. Brilliant reaction by Shapiro. That there was half of the points scored against Paddy.
Paddy’s issue isn’t effort or attitude. He wrestles with purpose. His issue is a lack of diversity. He has only a couple of ways to beat you. When those ways aren’t producing points, he’s not gonna win.
I for one am not giving up on him. Last night was an abbreviation against what very well might be a generational talent in Meyer Shapiro.
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Discussion Topic: TOSU v. Cornell
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on January 6, 2024
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"I won't be surprised if Buckeyes have 5 All Americans this year." Rex Holman
Nice to hear you feel that way. I'd love an assessment as to who and why.
It's a fascinating season. We're seeing better duals and more exciting wrestling. Of all the changes that have been proposed over the years, I think making a takedown worth 3 is genius. Takedowns are he focal point and the action controls the outcome. There's no such thing as non-controversy but I think we're almost always seeing the deserving wrestler win.
And with the exception of Penn State, there's fabulous competition with lots of solid squads. There are a lot of teams with multiple AA candidates and plenty more with at least one. Hell, half the country thinks they've got a kid who can win 125.
This Bucks squad has competed passionately throughout the season in spite of the lineup taking significant hits. Kudos to the wrestlers and coaches. You've been a blast to watch so far this season.
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Discussion Topic: TOSU v. Cornell
Jared Ball added to this discussion on January 7, 2024
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Quote from Pat Costilow's post:
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Quote from Jack Muni's post:
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"I also thought Geog managed the match better than he has in the past. He usually gets gassed by the third period, but he slowed things down this time. And Welsh meets #3 Ruth next week vs Illinois so we should get a barometer on his progress up to this point. He doesn't seem to lack toughness. At 184 I think you have to give Shumate a shot, still think Rogotzke needs more time. Hepner is fun to watch, never out of the match. Considering his limited action, he gave Ramirez a scare last night."
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Agreed on your Geog point, but man did Grey/Cardenas give away a team point there, very poor match management in the third."
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The coaching staff was screaming for him to cut Luke. He realized this with plenty of time left but Geog latched onto a wrist from the bottom and wouldn’t let go. By the time he did it was too late. Smart by Luke, but clearly a stall tactic. I thought the ref was going to hit him for stalling there, which may have been a penalty leading to a major (but not sure if that would have been the second stall or not).
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Discussion Topic: TOSU v. Cornell
Rex Holman added to this discussion on January 7, 2024
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When I critique something; I am not attempting to be harsh or unfair. I like to point things out that are missed and stay objective. In saying that Paddy's hands were out of position, they were. He was looking for placement but was boxed out by Shapiro. You have to have an elbow, a wrist or be ready to down block and move your feet.
The point is that coming away from that match; he might not be dialed into the actual technical reason for getting beat, which almost ensures the same performance for next time.
In a perfect world, a wrestler would go back over the video and look at the positions in which he made mistakes and then methodically go about correcting them.
I think Shapiro is a threat to become a 4x NCAA champ, but only with attention to detail of his mindset and making sure that his level of quality is always there.
Paddy is an AA threat as proven by his performances. That being said, you always need to keep improving your game by addressing the details.
Good call on the Cardenas v Geog match. Without hand control, Cardenas gets the roll through tilt. He worked Allred with it at Vegas. Geog was focused on controlling hands but not working up. To that I say, it was probably his level of comfort and that you have to crawl before you can walk. Meaning that steps towards improvement take time to develop.
Objectively speaking Geog wrestled a good first period as his hands were in great position and he did not give up the double which Cardenas is particularly strong at. He did give up a reshot which is avoided by taking a better shot that is not readily reshot. Again, his position did not break until the end when Cardenas's constant pressure finally resulted in an offensive takedown.
So, to improve, he can work on wrinkles to his set up game that allow for cleaner shots and the progression from just hand control to a bulletproof escape.
Does the preparation that lies ahead focus on these things?
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Discussion Topic: TOSU v. Cornell
Mike Stann added to this discussion on January 7, 2024
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great dual! just an observation that frustrates me time and time again. I thought the ref for osu-cornell was outstanding. he was steady, consistent and controlled the matches. when riding parallel he called the top guy for stalling. I also watched Ohio U (hey have a nice looking young team this year) against MSU. the ref there called stalling on the bottom man while he was being ridden parallel. having had plenty of experience as the kid on the bottom I would love to see some consistency on stalling calls at this level.
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Discussion Topic: TOSU v. Cornell
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on January 7, 2024
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Quote from Mike Stann's post:
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"great dual! just an observation that frustrates me time and time again. I thought the ref for osu-cornell was outstanding. he was steady, consistent and controlled the matches. when riding parallel he called the top guy for stalling. I also watched Ohio U (hey have a nice looking young team this year) against MSU. the ref there called stalling on the bottom man while he was being ridden parallel. having had plenty of experience as the kid on the bottom I would love to see some consistency on stalling calls at this level."
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I would guess that this year is going to be one of "adjustment" for the NCAA officials as the rules for what is defined as stalling changed considerably. Some will make that adjustment quicker than others. Remember that they have to make allowances for "riding time". With the new rules and interpretations, how do you call it? I would bet a LOT of money that every single official out there is asking the same question.
In the past it would make me crazy watching a defensive man under Spencer Lee or Logan Stieber be warned or penalized for stalling. No wrestler with any brains wants to be in that position and if they could get out they would. I can't speak to the NCAA Rule Book but for the NFHS, it is not stalling if you are being overpowered.
In the meantime, I would see a man sprawl to avoid a shot, in the middle of the mat, and get rung up. Was he supposed to just be taken down? It made no sense to me.
It is easy to watch a match and call for "consistency" but what does that consist of?
I have long held that you could put 20 coaches in a room and there would likely be 19 different opinions on what stalling is.
All that said, all you can really ask for is consistency from one match to another with THAT one official. Kind of like balls and strikes, that way you know what to expect to see. As long as humans are involved, expecting every judgement call from all officials (in any sport) to be exactly the same is not likely to happen.
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Discussion Topic: TOSU v. Cornell
Jack Muni added to this discussion on January 7, 2024
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I listened to TR press conference and had never heard that story of Kyle Snyder winning his NCAA title, then throwing his head gear into the stands and being caught by seventh grader Rocco Welsh. The odds of that have to be astronomical? I went back and watched the replay and it wasn't a casual underhand toss to a fan, he winged it from center mat! Like TR said, Rocco was meant to be a Buckeye.
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Discussion Topic: TOSU v. Cornell
Jeff Streu added to this discussion on January 9, 2024
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Quote from Jack Muni's post:
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"I listened to TR press conference and had never heard that story of Kyle Snyder winning his NCAA title, then throwing his head gear into the stands and being caught by seventh grader Rocco Welsh. The odds of that have to be astronomical? I went back and watched the replay and it wasn't a casual underhand toss to a fan, he winged it from center mat! Like TR said, Rocco was meant to be a Buckeye."
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That's cool! I was there in Cleveland in 2018 and saw Snyder throw his headgear, but I never knew who caught it! Thanks for sharing!
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Discussion Topic: TOSU v. Cornell
Rex Holman added to this discussion on January 11, 2024
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Hank-
My reasoning.
In order of guys that I think most likely will AA (wrestling really well scenarios)
Mendez 1-4
D'Emilio 4-6
Rocco Welsh 5-8
Nick Bouzakis 5-8
Bryce Hepner 7-12
Nick Feldman 7-12
Paddy Gallagher 7-16
Brendan McCrone 7-24
Luke Geog 16-24
So, I think there are 8 guys that can AA based on performances right now. Not likely to happen. More likely to be 4. But, again 5 would not be surprising especially if these guys wrestle their best at end of season, which is a past pattern.
The wheels can fall off with injuries, training and competitions. But there is that much All-American level talent in the room.
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