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Discussion Topic: Brooks failed PED test at U23
Mike Stann added to this discussion on May 11, 2024
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Quote from Alex Creech's post:
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"I respect your insights Rex, but you're still wrong.
There's a difference to what Adderrall does to an ADHD brain and someone without ADHD. Do some more research.
You don't know anything about Brooks situation, but you sure seem convinced he's guilty of something because of his performance. Do you think the same about Logan, Taylor, Cael, Ruth, Dake, Steveson, Snyder? Their performances were other worldly.
You won a NCAA title in 1993 and went 29-0, seems pretty other worldy to me."
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Obviously Adderrall helps those with ADHD. The real questions are how easy is it to get a prescription for Adderrall and who has done so not to treat ADHD but for its’ performance enhancing qualities. How does one differentiate between the two? It. does seem exceedingly difficult to distinguish between who has a medical condition allowing them to take a drug that on its face improves performance and who doesn’t. What should be done about a wrestler who has a condition that requires the drug for treatment wrestling one with no such condition and therefore can’t legitimately take the drug? What a conundrum As to unworldly performances there is a difference between those who do so and those who do so with an unworldly attack rate
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Discussion Topic: Brooks failed PED test at U23
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on May 11, 2024
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Quote from Alex Creech's post:
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"
You don't know anything about Brooks situation, but you sure seem convinced he's guilty of something because of his performance. Do you think the same about Logan, Taylor, Cael, Ruth, Dake, Steveson, Snyder? Their performances were other worldly.
You won a NCAA title in 1993 and went 29-0, seems pretty other worldy to me."
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Three thoughts on this.
I am convinced he is "guilty" of something because he apparently tested positive for it. Rex knows far more about pace in wrestling than I ever will but a positive test is the clincher for me. That circles us back to what we are led to believe is a back-dated TUE. Is that the way it should be handled so he can wrestle? Not in my book.
You mention a list of names. How do we know that they were not using something? Not even remotely saying they were but we just do not know. Even never testing positive is not proof that someone isn't enhanced, just ask Lance Armstrong.
Being an NCAA champion and going undefeated would seem unworldly and impossible to all the rest of us. I don't think doing it makes one guilty (but a positive test does).
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Discussion Topic: Brooks failed PED test at U23
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on May 11, 2024
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM4CKTKe4ow
Brooks interview today. He talks about the drug rumors which he said was Vyvanse, not Adderall (I have no clue how they are different) - and a shot at an unknown person (but not hard to guess who he's talking about).
re-posting here.
IMHO, not a good interview look for Brooks.
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Discussion Topic: Brooks failed PED test at U23
Alex Creech added to this discussion on May 11, 2024
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Quote from Mike Stann's post:
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"The real questions are how easy is it to get a prescription for Adderrall and who has done so not to treat ADHD but for its’ performance enhancing qualities. How does one differentiate between the two? It. does seem exceedingly difficult to distinguish between who has a medical condition allowing them to take a drug that on its face improves performance and who doesn’t. What should be done about a wrestler who has a condition that requires the drug for treatment wrestling one with no such condition and therefore can’t legitimately take the drug? What a conundrum."
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Good questions, and I don't know. It is a conundrum and I think short of banning it completely for any reason, they are doing the best they can.
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Discussion Topic: Brooks failed PED test at U23
Alex Creech added to this discussion on May 11, 2024
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM4CKTKe4ow
Brooks interview today. He talks about the drug rumors which he said was Vyvanse, not Adderall (I have no clue how they are different) - and a shot at an unknown person (but not hard to guess who he's talking about).
re-posting here.
IMHO, not a good interview look for Brooks."
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I watched it Brady, and I can see how it might not be a good look for those that love David Taylor, but I didn't really hear anything bad. I know there are many here who consider Taylor an "Ohio" boy, and even know him. I'm in the minority, but I've never really considered him an "Ohio" kid, and I'm not really sure he thinks that either. I do like Taylor though.
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Discussion Topic: Brooks failed PED test at U23
Alex Creech added to this discussion on May 11, 2024
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"
Three thoughts on this.
I am convinced he is "guilty" of something because he apparently tested positive for it. Rex knows far more about pace in wrestling than I ever will but a positive test is the clincher for me. That circles us back to what we are led to believe is a back-dated TUE. Is that the way it should be handled so he can wrestle? Not in my book.
You mention a list of names. How do we know that they were not using something? Not even remotely saying they were but we just do not know. Even never testing positive is not proof that someone isn't enhanced, just ask Lance Armstrong.
Being an NCAA champion and going undefeated would seem unworldly and impossible to all the rest of us. I don't think doing it makes one guilty (but a positive test does)."
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Guilty of what? Failing to understand the paperwork necessary, yes. Doping? NO. He never tried to hide he was taking Vyvanse. He has a prescription for it. It's within the rules to take it with the right paperwork, which they apparently now have because he was cleared to wrestle the trials and expects to be cleared to wrestle the Olympics.
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Discussion Topic: Brooks failed PED test at U23
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on May 11, 2024
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Quote from Alex Creech's post:
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"
Guilty of what? Failing to understand the paperwork necessary, yes. Doping? NO. He never tried to hide he was taking Vyvanse. He has a prescription for it. It's within the rules to take it with the right paperwork, which they apparently now have because he was cleared to wrestle the trials and expects to be cleared to wrestle the Olympics."
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Well, I can see that we will never agree on this.
As Rex has pointed out, and you don't seem to agree, this is a performance enhancing medication. If it was not, it would not on the WADA or USADA banned lists. It is "doping". Just that with a TUE, it is legal.
Do you KNOW that he had a prescription for the medication prior to failing the test or was it written afterwards? The answer is that neither you nor I know that. That is what we are being told but that does not make it the truth.
"Failing to understand"?? Really? He apparently did NOT have the proper paperwork filed and back dating it is just as wrong. That is what brought this to light. Athletes (and coaches) at that level know the rules. Can you justify back dating? If so, what other rules should be ignored?
This is not going to be a popular view but I do not believe that ANY performance enhancing drugs should be allowed for any reason. If the drugs are needed to achieve a certain quality of life, that is fine. No problem, make your life better. However when those same drugs provide a performance advantage, no way. It simply is not fair to anyone not using them. As an example, what about an athlete who has a problem with ED. That is a quality of life issue. However, should I have to compete against him while he is permitted to use a performance enhancing drug (in this case testosterone)? How is that a fair and level playing field? I compete without "help" and my results show it.
Look, I get it that you are a fan of wrestling and (I guess) of AB in particular. However, the rules are in place specifically because of people who cheat. Trying to draw a line that makes it "fair" for everyone is simply not possible.
Knowing that I will never change your mind, I am done. IMO, if someone takes a drug that is not permitted or takes one that is permitted without the proper paperwork completed, to me, it is cheating.
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Discussion Topic: Brooks failed PED test at U23
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on May 11, 2024
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Quote from Alex Creech's post:
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"I watched it Brady, and I can see how it might not be a good look for those that love David Taylor, but I didn't really hear anything bad. I know there are many here who consider Taylor an "Ohio" boy, and even know him. I'm in the minority, but I've never really considered him an "Ohio" kid, and I'm not really sure he thinks that either. I do like Taylor though."
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When he could have said, he is a legend at PSU and I wish him the best moving forward, he chose the other path
His take on the Zahid match was sad. Called those who see it different than he did ignorant. Made excuses for his close matches & loss in previous seasons.
All around not a good interview for a guy that I really like.
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Last edited by Brady Hiatt on May 11, 2024; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: Brooks failed PED test at U23
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on May 11, 2024
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Quote from Alex Creech's post:
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"Good questions, and I don't know. It is a conundrum and I think short of banning it completely for any reason, they are doing the best they can."
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I'm on "Team Ban It For Any Reason".
When anything is allowed, it'll be abused. I see it all the time in schools. Parents who want a diagnosis for their child can find a Dr. that will give the desired diagnosis.
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Discussion Topic: Brooks failed PED test at U23
Doug Brandt added to this discussion on May 11, 2024
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"
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Quote from Alex Creech's post:
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"Good questions, and I don't know. It is a conundrum and I think short of banning it completely for any reason, they are doing the best they can."
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I'm on "Team Ban It For Any Reason".
When anything is allowed, it'll be abused. I see it all the time in schools. Parents who want a diagnosis for their child can find a Dr. that will give the desired diagnosis."
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Exactly.
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Discussion Topic: Brooks failed PED test at U23
Rex Holman added to this discussion on May 14, 2024
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Alex-
Rather than just tell me I'm wrong please go back and tell me specifically what is wrong with my statements.
I took the time to write out an easy-to-understand assessment of how taking an ADHD med would make someone better. It no uncertain terms it improves the ability to focus, stay present and maintain a consistent mindset in the person with ADHD. Also, it can aid in other areas; for example weight, loss or appetite suppressant.
In the person without ADHD or mild ADHD, it would have a more pronounced effect of acting as a strong stimulant.
Please help me understand your position.
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Discussion Topic: Brooks failed PED test at U23
Alex Creech added to this discussion on May 14, 2024
Last edited by Alex Creech on May 14, 2024; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: Brooks failed PED test at U23
Alex Creech added to this discussion on May 14, 2024
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Quote from Doug Brandt's post:
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"
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"
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Quote from Alex Creech's post:
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"Good questions, and I don't know. It is a conundrum and I think short of banning it completely for any reason, they are doing the best they can."
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I'm on "Team Ban It For Any Reason".
When anything is allowed, it'll be abused. I see it all the time in schools. Parents who want a diagnosis for their child can find a Dr. that will give the desired diagnosis."
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Exactly."
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I'm not on that team. I get the frustration but there will always be cheaters. I'm generally not in favor of taking the rights away of the many who are legitimate because of the few who aren't.
But I get it.
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Discussion Topic: Brooks failed PED test at U23
Roe Fox added to this discussion on May 14, 2024
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WebMD:
This combination medication is used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder - ADHD. It works by changing the amounts of certain natural substances in the brain. Amphetamine/dextroamphetamine belongs to a class of drugs known as stimulants. It can help increase your ability to pay attention, stay focused on an activity, and control behavior problems. It may also help you to organize your tasks and improve listening skills.This drug is also used to treat a certain sleeping disorder (narcolepsy) to help you stay awake during the day. It should not be used to treat tiredness or to hold off sleep in people who do not have a sleep disorder.
How to use Adderall
Read the Medication Guide provided by your pharmacist before you start taking amphetamine/dextroamphetamine and each time you get a refill. If you have any questions, ask your doctor or pharmacist.
Take this medication by mouth with or without food as directed by your doctor, usually 1 to 3 times a day. The first dose is usually taken when you wake up in the morning. If more doses are prescribed, take them as directed by your doctor, usually 4-6 hours apart. Taking this medication late in the day may cause trouble sleeping (insomnia).
The dosage is based on your medical condition and response to treatment. Your doctor may adjust your dose to find the dose that is best for you. Follow your doctor's instructions carefully.
Use this medication regularly to get the most benefit from it. To help you remember, take it at the same time(s) each day.
During treatment, your doctor may occasionally recommend stopping the medication for a short time to see whether there are any changes in your behavior and whether the medication is still needed.
If you suddenly stop using this medication, you may have withdrawal symptoms (such as severe tiredness, sleep problems, mental/mood changes such as depression). To help prevent withdrawal, your doctor may lower your dose slowly. Withdrawal is more likely if you have used this medication for a long time or in high doses. Tell your doctor or pharmacist right away if you have withdrawal.
Though it helps many people, this medication may sometimes cause addiction. This risk may be higher if you have a substance use disorder (such as overuse of or addiction to drugs/alcohol). Do not increase your dose, take it more often, or use it for a longer time than prescribed. Properly stop the medication when so directed.
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Discussion Topic: Brooks failed PED test at U23
Alex Creech added to this discussion on May 14, 2024
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"Alex-
Rather than just tell me I'm wrong please go back and tell me specifically what is wrong with my statements.
I took the time to write out an easy-to-understand assessment of how taking an ADHD med would make someone better. It no uncertain terms it improves the ability to focus, stay present and maintain a consistent mindset in the person with ADHD. Also, it can aid in other areas; for example weight, loss or appetite suppressant.
In the person without ADHD or mild ADHD, it would have a more pronounced effect of acting as a strong stimulant.
Please help me understand your position."
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I'll respond to you privately Rex. This is my last post on the subject.
To everyone, I'm not a huge AB fan. I actually have a hard time rooting for PSU guys. What I'm a fan of is innocent until proven guilty and I'm not going to condemn AB based on a tweet from Mineo. He didn't even get the drug right.
This isn't personal either, regarding someone taking ADHD medication.
The agencies have exceptions for these drugs and there's a reason for that. There will always be cheaters.
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