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Discussion Topic: Tom Ryan
Roe Fox added to this discussion on April 4, 2025
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If TR had the money we would probably have Blaze or Bassett. No knock on either, They got crazy coin.
To Justin’s point (I think), no way he ever takes A.J. Ferrari, who has to be the favorite next year at 97, certainly more so than the million dollar man (reportedly) Peterson.
Like most wrestlers of my generation, Gable and Iowa were the icons of wrestling. It is sad, to me, what they have become. The Iowa style of relentless handwork has been replaced by the Iowa style of cold hard cash.
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Discussion Topic: Tom Ryan
Chris Thomas added to this discussion on April 4, 2025
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The NCAA has exploited college athletes from its inception. I'm happy that athletes are able to capitalize on their success or brand. As a coach you have to adjust to the era we are in to remain relevant or step away. As of right now Iowa and Oklahoma State has the resources to attract the top tier talent. PSU was dominating before nil and has continued through the first few years of nil.
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Discussion Topic: Tom Ryan
Roe Fox added to this discussion on April 4, 2025
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Quote from Chris Thomas's post:
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"The NCAA has exploited college athletes from its inception. I'm happy that athletes are able to capitalize on their success or brand. As a coach you have to adjust to the era we are in to remain relevant or step away. As of right now Iowa and Oklahoma State has the resources to attract the top tier talent. PSU was dominating before nil and has continued through the first few years of nil."
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I agree on athletes getting something more than a scholarship, books, the best food and trainers, etc. What that is I don’t know.
What I do know is that when the financial compensation is so out of whack and unregulated that it changes the competitive balance so only three or so of 80 teams have a real chance of a title, something has to change.
How is a coach with no money adjust to not having money (relatively speaking)? It’s not his/her choice. On this forum we live in a wrestling world where it is very important to us. For most colleges, it’s an afterthought, if it even exists.
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Discussion Topic: Tom Ryan
Mark Myers added to this discussion on April 4, 2025
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"
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Quote from Chris Thomas's post:
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"The NCAA has exploited college athletes from its inception. I'm happy that athletes are able to capitalize on their success or brand. As a coach you have to adjust to the era we are in to remain relevant or step away. As of right now Iowa and Oklahoma State has the resources to attract the top tier talent. PSU was dominating before nil and has continued through the first few years of nil."
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I agree on athletes getting something more than a scholarship, books, the best food and trainers, etc. What that is I don’t know.
What I do know is that when the financial compensation is so out of whack and unregulated that it changes the competitive balance so only three or so of 80 teams have a real chance of a title, something has to change.
How is a coach with no money adjust to not having money (relatively speaking)? It’s not his/her choice. On this forum we live in a wrestling world where it is very important to us. For most colleges, it’s an afterthought, if it even exists."
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Schools like Iowa and OK State have no chance of winning a national championship in football, so it's no surprise they put a lot of money into wrestling. Penn State has never won a B10 football championship, so maybe they are in that group too:)
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Discussion Topic: Tom Ryan
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on April 4, 2025
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Funny how when the people actually doing the work get the money it makes everyone cry “competitive balance”. So, what you’re calling for is government regulation of how much money a person can make? Do you endorse that philosophy regarding any other vocation?
I don’t remember who said it above, that this NIL situation has made it so only two or three teams have a chance at a National Title…when has it not been that way? In our sport’s history, how many programs have won the team title? Six? Seven? And funny, it’s the same teams that are relevant now.
Before NIL it was Penn State, Iowa and Oklahoma State winning the lions share of the team titles. Minnesota had a little run, tOSU broke through due in large part to fantastic Ohio high school talent at the time. But it’s all the same teams in the drivers seat. If NIL were to go away tomorrow, do you think the landscape would drastically change?
Great teams come from great leader/coaches. Iowa wasn’t Iowa until Gable did his thing. Penn State wasn’t Penn State until Sanderson arrived. John Smith won his titles, JRob had his era. Coach Ryan should definitely be recognized for his leadership and vision winning tOSU’s championship.
My point is Ohio State fans just sound like they’re whining about it not being fair. It’s as fair as it’s ever been. There have always been haves and have nots. How did Nebraska do what it did this year? Most of that team is coming back next season. How is it possible? Do they too have more money to spend than tOSU?
The bottom line is Ohio State lost a true freshman NCAA runner-up because he wanted to go somewhere where he felt he could improve more. You’d think that would be a concern. But instead, excuses are made and the athlete’s character is questioned (even though there’s no reasonable argument to refute his assertion).
Coach Ryan is the captain of this ship. He gets the credit when things go well and he gets the blame when things do not. Everything that happens on his ship may not be his fault, but it’s his responsibility.
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Discussion Topic: Tom Ryan
Roe Fox added to this discussion on April 4, 2025
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Fascinating argument: three schools with literally millions to spend don’t have a competitive advantage. Neither I nor logic choose to agree with that.
I fully acknowledge the football team clearly was at a competitive advantage by spending the 3rd or 4th (nationally) most money on the team last year behind Georgia, Oregon and I think someone else.
They don’t spend that money they don’t get their QB and star safety….and no title. They don’t keep Downs and JJ this year. They got two portal tackles they needed this year to fill glaring holes with the money. If they don’t do any of those they don’t finish top 10 this year.
Nebraska had a good run. You picking them over PSU? I don’t really think it’s hard to understand. It’s not whining. It’s fact. Can a confluence of factors come together to create a magic season for some team? Sure. But it’s overwhelmingly not the likely odds. You might ask why isn’t Iowa top 3 with their budget? It’s because they’re doing nothing with the talent. I’m not sure they finish top 10 without the players they bought, though.
You’re really just looking for reasons to hate and name call now. How about this rhetorical question: if you were the coach, you would rather have TOSU’s budget or Iowa, PSU and OSU? There is, I hope, an obvious answer.
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Discussion Topic: Tom Ryan
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on April 4, 2025
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First off, I don’t think I called anyone a name. But if I did, I apologize. That’s not my intent. I’m on a discussion board…discussing.
I understand what you’re saying regarding tOSU’s football team and their well deserved championship. But I don’t think the two stories have much in common. If Ohio State had won 12 of the last 14 titles (1O or 11 of which were not in the NIL era) then I would say Ohio State is dominating because of their culture, their vision, their staff, the relationships they’ve built and the recruits they’ve brought in. That’s why Penn State is winning.
What they’re doing in Happy Valley is attracting the very best to work with the very best. That’s what they’ve been doing pre-NIL and that’s what they’re doing now. I’m sure there’s an NIL component, but it’s not the reason. If it was, how would you explain the last decade?
I agree with you on Nebraska, by the way. I think that’s what Ohio State did to win its title. The only difference is the year Ohio State was at its best was a year Penn State was “down” and the year Nebraska was at its best was a record setting tourney for PSU. My point was that can still happen. A squad can have everything line up and have a great year. If they’re going to win its, it will have to fall on a down year for Penn State. That’s not likely for the foreseeable future. But the reason for that isn’t NIL, it’s Coach Sanderson and what he’s built there.
As far as your question, I believe tOSU has the largest athletic budget in America. Now, I’ve been told that the wrestling/NIL budget is a different animal and I believe that. But I don’t know what Ohio State, Oklahoma State, Iowa or Penn State’s NIL budgets are…do you? Without knowing the numbers it’s hard to answer the question. I would definitely rather have Penn State’s staff. I think Oklahoma’s staff is going to be very good as well. I agree that all Iowa has now is the shadow of Coach Gable’s time there. But it’s amazing that that’s all they have and they’re still this relevant.
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Discussion Topic: Tom Ryan
Ben Golden added to this discussion on April 5, 2025
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Michael I largely agree with your comments about the winning environment—and not NIL—being the key ingredient to their success.
Transfer portal & money have been a key enabler of taking it to the next level though. For instance, until the transfer portal rules opened up a couple years ago, and NIL became a thing, Penn State would have their studs, but they’d have a couple holes as well. As soon as the transfer portal opened, though, they immediately brought in Mesenbrink, Nagao and Truax (there was a 4th transfer in forgetting) to fill what would have otherwise been relative holes. They wouldn’t have been able to have all those transfers pre-portal, and without budget and a mechanism to pay beyond 9.9 scholarships, they very likely wouldn’t have been make it financially viable to add those extra pieces.
Another interesting point about OSU in this day and age… the Ohio RTC is virtually dead, at least in terms of post-college wrestlers. There was a time—while Cael was at PSU—that Ohio RTC was the finest in the land, was home to 4 out of 7 world team members, and had other good talent on the bench. Now in this climate where there’s a lot more ways for donors to impact how much talent is around, I’m not sure if they have a single resident athlete. I’m not sure if that’s because that money has been reallocated to NIL, or if donations slowed, or if the market rate for post-collegiate wrestlers just went up, but I know the finances are a big part of this. And, of course, and RTC is/was a key way to enrich your stable or training partners. It’s no coincidence that Ohio State wrestling’s best days were when the Ohio RTC was alive and thriving.
I really don’t mean any of this as an “excuse” for Ohio State. A few things I believe all at once:
1) yes, they may lack the financial resources some other wrestling programs, but
2) Ohio State is an institution where resources are relatively plentiful in general,
3) On the flip side, I’m not personally willing to make any meaningful donation to fund athletic activities at a university (other than throwing a seasoning packet alongside Hank’s brisket NIL deals) —but I am happy to buy tickets, buy some shirts, etc. Of course even if I was willing to donate, I’m not able to donate enough to move the needle, but it’s the unwillingness which handicaps my footing to complain too much about fundraising.
4) Ohio State’s performance in 2024/25 wasn’t particularly good. Aside from Jesse Mendez, team NCAA performance isn’t going to inspire any recruits to want to go there (regardless of money).
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Discussion Topic: Tom Ryan
Roe Fox added to this discussion on April 5, 2025
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Ben:
To points 2 and 3 above, I think there is a lot of ignorance on this board about NIL, including me. So maybe someone has answers.
I understand that NIL is separate from school funding. In other words, a private donor can give private funds to specifically support obtaining a college athlete. This was the fear for decades and now Pandora’s Box has been opened. Thus, TOSU needs a sugar daddy like Iowa, OSU and PSU (which I believe has several).
I thought football has the 1832 (or whatever year it is) club which privately raises money for NIL. I don’t believe it is a school run program but again, I am ignorant about that. Anyone actually know? I also saw a Columbus NIL Club.
Can a university give its own general fund money for NIL? If not, then it doesn’t matter what funds the school has or how big it is, does it? In reality, the football team is to TOSU what the wrestling teams are to Iowa and PSU.
I buy season tickets to support the wrestling team. Like Ben, the disposable funds aren’t there after I support my other interests, like my family, church, etc.
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Discussion Topic: Tom Ryan
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 6, 2025
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"The bottom line is Ohio State lost a true freshman NCAA runner-up because he wanted to go somewhere where he felt he could improve more. You’d think that would be a concern. But instead, excuses are made and the athlete’s character is questioned (even though there’s no reasonable argument to refute his assertion). "
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A reasonable argument can be made to refute his assertion.
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Discussion Topic: Tom Ryan
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 6, 2025
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Quote from Ben Golden's post:
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"4) Ohio State’s performance in 2024/25 wasn’t particularly good. Aside from Jesse Mendez, team NCAA performance isn’t going to inspire any recruits to want to go there (regardless of money)."
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Dylan D has an OUTSTANDING NCAA tournament. Just sayin.
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Discussion Topic: Tom Ryan
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 6, 2025
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"First off, I don’t think I called anyone a name. But if I did, I apologize. That’s not my intent. I’m on a discussion board…discussing.
I understand what you’re saying regarding tOSU’s football team and their well deserved championship. But I don’t think the two stories have much in common. If Ohio State had won 12 of the last 14 titles (1O or 11 of which were not in the NIL era) then I would say Ohio State is dominating because of their culture, their vision, their staff, the relationships they’ve built and the recruits they’ve brought in. That’s why Penn State is winning.
What they’re doing in Happy Valley is attracting the very best to work with the very best. That’s what they’ve been doing pre-NIL and that’s what they’re doing now. I’m sure there’s an NIL component, but it’s not the reason. If it was, how would you explain the last decade?
I agree with you on Nebraska, by the way. I think that’s what Ohio State did to win its title. The only difference is the year Ohio State was at its best was a year Penn State was “down” and the year Nebraska was at its best was a record setting tourney for PSU. My point was that can still happen. A squad can have everything line up and have a great year. If they’re going to win its, it will have to fall on a down year for Penn State. That’s not likely for the foreseeable future. But the reason for that isn’t NIL, it’s Coach Sanderson and what he’s built there.
As far as your question, I believe tOSU has the largest athletic budget in America. Now, I’ve been told that the wrestling/NIL budget is a different animal and I believe that. But I don’t know what Ohio State, Oklahoma State, Iowa or Penn State’s NIL budgets are…do you? Without knowing the numbers it’s hard to answer the question. I would definitely rather have Penn State’s staff. I think Oklahoma’s staff is going to be very good as well. I agree that all Iowa has now is the shadow of Coach Gable’s time there. But it’s amazing that that’s all they have and they’re still this relevant."
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Excellent post and excellent comments by Ben following this about the depth that the portal and NIL has created at PSU. The rules are SO different now that to compare the past two years teams with the greatest teams of the past that they broke record of shouldn't even happen. Apples to Oranges.
I love that some wrestlers are able to cash in on their skills. I would have settled for a NIL deal that gave me enough scratch that I could have taken my wife (then gf) on a date for more than coffee. :). But I'd prefer some sort of contract that goes along with the NIL deal -- and a buyout if they want to hit the portal were a percent (time a the University since NIL was signed; did any of the staff leave and then you hit the portal, etc.) of the $ would have to be returned if they left. Guy can literally take the cash and then leave a couple months later without consequence. Not a fan of this.
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Discussion Topic: Tom Ryan
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 6, 2025
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"First off, I don’t think I called anyone a name. But if I did, I apologize. That’s not my intent. I’m on a discussion board…discussing.
I understand what you’re saying regarding tOSU’s football team and their well deserved championship. But I don’t think the two stories have much in common. If Ohio State had won 12 of the last 14 titles (1O or 11 of which were not in the NIL era) then I would say Ohio State is dominating because of their culture, their vision, their staff, the relationships they’ve built and the recruits they’ve brought in. That’s why Penn State is winning.
What they’re doing in Happy Valley is attracting the very best to work with the very best. That’s what they’ve been doing pre-NIL and that’s what they’re doing now. I’m sure there’s an NIL component, but it’s not the reason. If it was, how would you explain the last decade?
I agree with you on Nebraska, by the way. I think that’s what Ohio State did to win its title. The only difference is the year Ohio State was at its best was a year Penn State was “down” and the year Nebraska was at its best was a record setting tourney for PSU. My point was that can still happen. A squad can have everything line up and have a great year. If they’re going to win its, it will have to fall on a down year for Penn State. That’s not likely for the foreseeable future. But the reason for that isn’t NIL, it’s Coach Sanderson and what he’s built there.
As far as your question, I believe tOSU has the largest athletic budget in America. Now, I’ve been told that the wrestling/NIL budget is a different animal and I believe that. But I don’t know what Ohio State, Oklahoma State, Iowa or Penn State’s NIL budgets are…do you? Without knowing the numbers it’s hard to answer the question. I would definitely rather have Penn State’s staff. I think Oklahoma’s staff is going to be very good as well. I agree that all Iowa has now is the shadow of Coach Gable’s time there. But it’s amazing that that’s all they have and they’re still this relevant."
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Excellent post and excellent comments by Ben following this about the depth that the portal and NIL has created at PSU. The rules are SO different now that to compare the past two years teams with the greatest teams of the past that they broke record of shouldn't even happen. Apples to Oranges.
I love that some wrestlers are able to cash in on their skills. I would have settled for a NIL deal that gave me enough scratch that I could have taken my wife (then gf) on a date for more than coffee. :). But I'd prefer some sort of contract that goes along with the NIL deal -- and a buyout if they want to hit the portal were a percent (time a the University since NIL was signed; did any of the staff leave and then you hit the portal, etc.) of the $ would have to be returned if they left. Guy can literally take the cash and then leave a couple months later without consequence. Not a fan of this.
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