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Discussion Topic: National Duals Invitational
Brian Mathews added to this discussion on November 16, 2025
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"Half this site claims mccrone is the better wrestler. Bouzakis has a case to be the number one ranked wrestler in america. Mccrone has stuggles with two scrubs. It’s clear as day who the starter is. Look at peterson and volks results. Bouzakis may be an NCAA champ or at least high placer. Mccrone goes 2-2 at best case scenario imo."
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I think you're a little confused. There's a big difference between who people think is the better wrestler, and who people think has earned opportunities in the lineup early on in the season here.
Awesome weekend from Bouzakis. If he continues like this he'll undoubtedly be the guy. That being said, wins over #8 and #10 are not a compelling case for being the #1 ranked wrestler at the weight.
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Discussion Topic: National Duals Invitational
Jeff Streu added to this discussion on November 16, 2025
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Quote from Scott Nicola's post:
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"
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"
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Quote from Casey Talbott's post:
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"
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"Stop this mccrone vs bouzakis debate. After this weekend bouzakis has a strong argument to be number one overall!! Mccrone borderline top 20"
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Nick -
Who are you arguing with?
And why now?
The Buckeyes - including McCrone - had a GREAT weekend.
So enjoy!"
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Half this site claims mccrone is the better wrestler. Bouzakis has a case to be the number one ranked wrestler in america. Mccrone has stuggles with two scrubs. It’s clear as day who the starter is. Look at peterson and volks results. Bouzakis may be an NCAA champ or at least high placer. Mccrone goes 2-2 at best case scenario imo."
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The argument was not that he was the better wrestler but that he had earned the spot because he won the head to head at a tournament which was the criteria that was specified by the coaching staff. Who are you to call any Division 1 wrestler a scrub? I'm willing to bet that Brendan McCrone or any of these other guys whose skills and accomplishments you like to disparage could dust you off in under a minute. I like this site because there are a lot of knowledgeable people on it who competed and coached at a high level. There tends to be good discussion and most people seem to be able to engage in this sort of discourse without coming off as total douchebags."
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Agreed on the not calling anyone a scrub part. There was an FRL episode where Shane Sparks told Ben Askren to stop saying certain guys "sucked." Any D1 wrestler is in the top 1% - or better - of all high school wrestlers.
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Discussion Topic: National Duals Invitational
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on November 17, 2025
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Im not here to fight. I was wrong and every d1 wrestler is very very good. Bouzakis is clearly better. Mccone had two close matches with non NCAA qualifiers. Bouzakis has a legit case to be numbee one and has now beaten like 8 all americans. He can win it all. Mccrone cant. Period. Bouzakis just beat two wrestlers than mccrone cant imo. Mccrone is a top 20ish wrester . Still good. Bouzakis is at worst a top 5.
BouAkis beat peterson and volk.
Look at petersons and volk resukts this weekend. Only lilladahl mayve has an argument to be ranked higher
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Discussion Topic: National Duals Invitational
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on November 17, 2025
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"Im not here to fight."
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You write this and then immediately launch into another argument/justification as to why "your" guy should be the MAN. Everyone else seems to want to see good wrestling and will let the coaching staff decide what is best for the team.
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Discussion Topic: National Duals Invitational
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on November 17, 2025
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I have to believe the coaching staff knows what they have in both and there was a reason they had Nic wrestle the better wrestlers this weekend.
Some will point to longer recovery time but Nic still had to weigh in Sunday.
Maybes it’s me but Nic seems calmer/patient and more energetic at 125.
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Discussion Topic: National Duals Invitational
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on November 17, 2025
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Nic--I agree that Bouzakis is probably the better option. But when you make statements like "McCrone never wins that match" there's no logic. It's just your opinion.
Both wrestlers performed at a high level this weekend. Kudos to them. I think we'll see both in the lineup throughout the season and that the coaches will have to make a tough choice at some point. It's a good problem to have.
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Discussion Topic: National Duals Invitational
Jack Muni added to this discussion on November 17, 2025
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With OSU winning over $200,000 in this event, do the wrestlers themselves get all or part of the prize money? Just curious how this works.
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Discussion Topic: National Duals Invitational
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on November 17, 2025
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They actually won 220,000 dollars as they secured 20k in takedown bonuses. I have no idea how they distribute the money and if coaches get a part.
Peterson beat Mccrone 11-4 last year. Volk beat Mccrone. Once again he is 2-17 against top 20 kids. The staff has already made the decesion it is not a tough one. They wrestled Bouzakis against the better wrestlers. Mccrone will get to wrestle in the meaningless duals sure. They don't need him cutting the weight every single week. If somehow hes not in the lineup this year Iowa will pay he a million bucks at this point and be should take it. Bouzakis has looked awesome.
Davino i think is a title contender. Only one i favor over him is Blaze. Crookham hasnt been healthy for a year and a half. Last person to take Davino down was Vega on a last second takedown to win the match in folkstyle years ago. He avenged that and look at how Vega did against Hardy. Davino is gonna be special
Stiles had a bounce back weekend but didnt beat anyone worth while.
Cannon looked very good but Taylor looked bad also. I think he solidified himself into the top 5. Always looking to score and bonus point machine
Paddy is much improved. I think he is a legit threat to be an all american this year.
Carson would be the number two guy if he beats Kennedy. One of my only disappointments this weekend. Still should be a high all american. He is right there with everyone other than Haines
Fishback lost to Allred 4-0 last year and looks much improved. He took it to Mcennelly and Ferrari. Probably number 5 behind mcenelly, welsh, sinclair, amd ferrari. Welsh and Fishback match is going to be a good one. This is the deepest weight in college.
197 looks to be the weight im most worried about. I think Waters could start right now. Chance marsteller claims waters would be an NCAA finalist right now. Im not sure about that but he could definately be the buckeyes starter now. Geog gets hurt too often
285 Feldman big win over Ferrari. Heavyweight is wide open this year. Feldman can finish anywhere from 1-6 probably.
Wrestlestat currently has buckeyes favored over Penn state to win the tournament lol with 139 points. While we know we aren't touching Penn State it is fun to see. Stay healthy and the buckeyes can be number 2 at the end of the year.
On a side note i hope Burnett watched that Nebraska ohio state dual as i don't think hes going to Penn state to sit on the bench more than likely. This should help the buckeyes a lot on the recruiting trail.
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Discussion Topic: National Duals Invitational
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on November 17, 2025
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FYI- Burnett was at PSU this weekend.
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Discussion Topic: National Duals Invitational
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on November 17, 2025
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Wow, that was outstanding!
As the years go on, it becomes more clear to me (I'm a bit slow at times) that the top tier wrestlers seem to have the apex ability to concentrate and rapidly process all the variables.
Mendez especially and it appears Davino is growing in this regard, as iron sharpens iron.
Also, I agree that Bouzakis seems more upbeat and -dare I type- focused.
This tournament reignited a joy in duals that I had forgotten.
Also, I love living in an era where I can actually watch wrestling on a screen. (Although it drives me crazy when I type in a search for a match or tournament and the youtube header tells me who won, but I digress...)
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Discussion Topic: National Duals Invitational
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on November 17, 2025
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Quote from Jim Kessen's post:
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"FYI- Burnett was at PSU this weekend."
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I saw that. Arrrrrgh.
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Discussion Topic: National Duals Invitational
Rob Wagner added to this discussion on November 17, 2025
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I'd think the way the Buckeyes wrestled and looked this weekend would be attractive to anyone HS recruit. Hopefully this gets them more traction.
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Quote from Jim Kessen's post:
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"FYI- Burnett was at PSU this weekend."
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Discussion Topic: National Duals Invitational
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on November 17, 2025
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133 could get even deeper 2nd semester with rumors of Jax Forest enrolling to Okie State 2nd semester and man 133
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Discussion Topic: National Duals Invitational
Scott Nicola added to this discussion on November 17, 2025
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Quote from Nick Lecklider's post:
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"They actually won 220,000 dollars as they secured 20k in takedown bonuses. I have no idea how they distribute the money and if coaches get a part.
Peterson beat Mccrone 11-4 last year. Volk beat Mccrone. Once again he is 2-17 against top 20 kids. The staff has already made the decesion it is not a tough one. They wrestled Bouzakis against the better wrestlers. Mccrone will get to wrestle in the meaningless duals sure. They don't need him cutting the weight every single week. If somehow hes not in the lineup this year Iowa will pay he a million bucks at this point and be should take it. Bouzakis has looked awesome.
Davino i think is a title contender. Only one i favor over him is Blaze. Crookham hasnt been healthy for a year and a half. Last person to take Davino down was Vega on a last second takedown to win the match in folkstyle years ago. He avenged that and look at how Vega did against Hardy. Davino is gonna be special
Stiles had a bounce back weekend but didnt beat anyone worth while.
Cannon looked very good but Taylor looked bad also. I think he solidified himself into the top 5. Always looking to score and bonus point machine
Paddy is much improved. I think he is a legit threat to be an all american this year.
Carson would be the number two guy if he beats Kennedy. One of my only disappointments this weekend. Still should be a high all american. He is right there with everyone other than Haines
Fishback lost to Allred 4-0 last year and looks much improved. He took it to Mcennelly and Ferrari. Probably number 5 behind mcenelly, welsh, sinclair, amd ferrari. Welsh and Fishback match is going to be a good one. This is the deepest weight in college.
197 looks to be the weight im most worried about. I think Waters could start right now. Chance marsteller claims waters would be an NCAA finalist right now. Im not sure about that but he could definately be the buckeyes starter now. Geog gets hurt too often
285 Feldman big win over Ferrari. Heavyweight is wide open this year. Feldman can finish anywhere from 1-6 probably.
Wrestlestat currently has buckeyes favored over Penn state to win the tournament lol with 139 points. While we know we aren't touching Penn State it is fun to see. Stay healthy and the buckeyes can be number 2 at the end of the year.
On a side note i hope Burnett watched that Nebraska ohio state dual as i don't think hes going to Penn state to sit on the bench more than likely. This should help the buckeyes a lot on the recruiting trail."
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Seriously man you really can't help yourself. Most people understand that Bouzakis was an elite recruit and has the higher ceiling but for whatever reason you love to disrespect McCrone. First of all, there are no "meaningless duals". These guys train and compete hard and any win at this level is meaningful. Where are you getting 2-27 against top 20 "kids"? in 23/24 he beat #13 Peterson (7-1), #1 Camacho (Fall), and #4 Ventresca (MD). Last year he beat #7 Lilledahl(Fall) and #9 Cooper Flynn (MD). That's 5 wins over top 15 guys scoring bonus points on 4 of them. All of these occurred in very "meaningful" duals against Penn State, NC State, Minnesota, Virginia Tech, and Rutgers. McCrone has 60 career college wins wrestling in the Big 10 and is 8-0 this year with his best win being over Nick Bouzakis, a guy that you believe could be an NCAA finalist. Most of us here are Ohio State fans and want nothing more than to see the Buckeyes put the best possible team on the mat. That very well could end up being Bouzakis but that doesn't mean that McCrone isn't competitive against elite guys because he has proven over the past 2 years that he most definitely is.
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Discussion Topic: National Duals Invitational
Nick Lecklider added to this discussion on November 18, 2025
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I use wrestlestat ranking as it is more indicative on what they did for an entire season and not just on that day. I did overlook Peterson so I believe he is 3-17 overall top 20 during the year the match took place.
I previously explained it so I’ll do this again
Ventresca was number 67 and hurt that season and ended up 2-7. He was losing to everyone. Look at parco and teemer at ncaas last year they scored Zero points. You can not wrestle injured at this level. Ventresca tried wrestling through an injury and couldn’t. He ended up taking a medical redshirt.
Peterson he is 1-2 against and Peterson has improved each time.
Flynn was 22 so did not include him
Camacho was 0-3 on that day and never finished higher than round 16 I believe
Lilladahl was up huge and probably going to tech him. That will not be repeated.
I never said Mccrone was bad. He is good. So is kilkeary they are all three top 25 wrestlers. Look at the current rankings. Lost to 18 McGowan, 17 Moore, 0-2 against 14 moran, 1-1 against renteria which again lost most recent meeting, lost to 11 Provo, 12 Rivera. Beat 18 cooper Flynn and 13 Anderson.
So between number 10-20 currently on Flo his career record is 3-7. Those are matches you need to win to even make the all American round. Flo had him at number 20 before replacing him with bouzakis which seems pretty fair. They have now entered Bouzakis to number 6. I think there isn’t a person who doesn’t think Bouzakis has the higher ceiling. The ceiling is what matters. Going 2-2 at nationals only gets you a couple points which Mccrone has still never done. Being in the finals gets you a lot. If you want to compete for trophies you wrestle the guy with the ceiling.
All duals are meaningful and again worded it wrong. I meant the duals which Ohio state can lose. They won’t be threatened too much this year but Iowa, nc state and Penn state come to mind. Who do they send out against NCAA champ Robinson in a few weeks?
I would love to see them both wrestle at cklv but can only send one. See how they navigate multiple ranked opponents in a tournament setting in a row. The staff is going to say it’s an open competition until big tens and both will wrestle. There will be outrage either way no matter who they say if they made a decision now. Got to keep them hungry and fight for it to bring the best out of each other also.
Another wrestle off is not what I want to see. I don’t care who wins a battle against guys who train together everyday. Ian paddock beat hunter Stieber one year. I want to see who does better against kids outside the room. We wrestle Iowa, Nebraska, and Minnesota again. Let the opposite guy wrestle and see who has best results. The next Iowa match will be much closer and you might not want to out Mccrone against Peterson however. Right now this current season Bouzakis has the best three wins. Anthony Knox is probably an all American now, Peterson, and Volk who has climbed all the way to number three. Mccrone hasn’t really got the opportunity to wrestle anyone at that caliber yet but he will get his chances. It’s a long season and we have just began but right now the key is to just stay healthy.
If ncaas were next week Tom Ryan would be the laughing stock of the NCAA if he wrestled Mccrone. Right now it is advantage Bouzakis. Bouzakis either needs to slip or Mccrone needs to beat a couple top 10 guys when given the chance. Robinson and cklv can both be good indicators for someone next month. Then Mccrone can have a shot at Volk and Peterson later on if the decision Is still ongoing.
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