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Discussion Topic: NCAA D1 - 149 pounds
Eric Curitore added to this discussion on September 24, 2007
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Hello, new to the forum...finally registered after being a constant reader for a good 4-5 months...
Question....
Has there been any news on the possible shake ups taking place at 149 this year? When i say this i am wondering about the idea of Lang moving up from 141...or Gillespie up to 157? Or any other i am not thinking of...Cause if they both end up there with Schlatter...Palmer...Metcalf...Etc...that'd be a scary weight class. Just wondering if anyone knew anything...Thanks.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA D1 - 149 pounds
Scott Nicola added to this discussion on September 24, 2007
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I think the consensus is that Gillespie will move to 157. There has been lots of Lang to 149 talk but I don't think it has been confirmed. In addition to the two you mentioned look for NCAA runner-up Churella and Junior World Champ Bubba Jenkins (coming down from 157) to make the Big 10 149 bracket one of the sickest in memory.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA D1 - 149 pounds
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on September 26, 2007
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Eric:
I went to Edinboro's website and they haven't updated any info from last season. NW's site has new info but Lang is listed at 141 on their roster. One can't place much stock in this info. Just look at the Bucks site and you'll note that Bergman is listed at 197, Nemec at 165, etc...
I'm going to assume Gillespie and Lang are making the moves up a weight class for next season. That would leave the following wrestlers as the obvious major players at 149.
Dustin--He has two losses in his collegiate career--what else is there to say? This in spite of not redshirting and competing last season against opponents who had devised strategies to limit his scoring. Plus he had a bad knee. He is superb in top, bottom, neutral and a master of position.
B.Metcalf--One of the most outrageous hs talents of the last 20 years and he's spent two seasons training without competing. He's going to tear apart some very tough opponents in the early going but I'd expect that the competition will adjust as his style becomes more well known. Still, a wrestler this explosive who has Tom Brands and Dan Gable as his coaches could easily emerge as the best wrestler at this weight class--even with Dustin as part of the picture.
J.Churella--The one wrestler left with the experience and technique to upset the top two.
B. Jenkins--He had a great summer. Is he the best pure athlete at 149? Hard to say how he'll fare against the top guys but he has to be considered as the most likely wrestler not to AA last season to be a major player at this wt. Some might think I'm overrating him but my guess is he'll prove himself if he can comfortably compete at this lower weight class.
L. Palmer--He displayed the physicality and the power to handle all but the very best last season (including a win over Churella). Can he find a way to beat the likes of a Dustin or a Metcalf?
JP O'Connor--Another great true frosh from last season. Like Palmer, he's going to have to show he can beat the best.
Ryan Lang--He's had a great career but this step up will test him. Will he be big enough at 149? He's explosive but the bully style he utilized at 141 probably won't work as well when matched up with the more powerful wrestlers at this wt. Also, he needs to stay healthy.
This analysis doesn't even take into account other studs like Cyler Sanderson, David Jauregui, Matt Coughlin and Jordan Leen.
Two thoughts on 149: staying healthy and getting a good draw will play a huge role in who emerges as the top 8 at this weight class when next March arrives.
I'd also say that the ability to maintain a proper mental edge will prove equally important. Some guys will look at their draws and want to puke at the NCAA's. Also, when so many quality guys are at a single wt, it can present an opportunity for overlooked wrestlers to pull upsets (Patascil from Purdue as an example) during the season and post-season.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA D1 - 149 pounds
Christopher Henderson added to this discussion on September 26, 2007
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This is sort of related to the 149 talk. The Illini website shows Tirapelle going down to 141 this season to make room for Reynolds, who I seem to remember did extremely well in freestyle. A Jaggers/Tirapelle rematch would be awesome.
141 is looking very interesting and loaded this year.
The top guys from last year: Ryan Lang, Jeff Jaggers,Charlie Griffin, Nathan Morgan, Donnie Fisch, Brandon Radar, Alex Tsirtsis, and Manny Riviera.
guys moving up from 133: Adam Frey, Jake Strayer, Nick Gallick and Drew Headlee
It should be extremely hard to get all-american this season.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA D1 - 149 pounds
Josh Lowe added to this discussion on September 26, 2007
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I've heard Leen and Coughlin will be going up in weight to 157. For Indiana, Becker slides up to 165 (Dean has transferred to Oklahoma).
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Discussion Topic: NCAA D1 - 149 pounds
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on September 26, 2007
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Josh--Interesting news. I didn't know that Dean had transferred but it makes sense if Becker was going to squeeze him out. Does that mean Kinser becomes Indiana's 149? Coughlin and Leen going up makes sense for both these talented guys.
Christopher--Sean Reynolds was Jr National champ as I recall. Quite the stud in high school. Just another tough guy to add to the 149 mix. I'll look forward to seeing how he competes within the Big Ten at this wt. Wasn't Tirapelle hurt towards the end of last season? Is Pero still around at 141? If so, Tirapelle could get squeezed out of the lineup.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA D1 - 149 pounds
Dan Cosimi added to this discussion on September 26, 2007
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Yes, Dean did transfer. Dan Ransick (who graduated with him from Lakota West) gave me the dealio on that a while back and apparently Dean is attending graduate school at Oklahoma, hence the move. It was not because Becker would squeeze him out (though he may or may not have). He will be very good there and should start in the upper middleweights along with Jarod King (you may remember him from splitting with Steve Luke at the Dapper Dan and Senior National finals).
Remembering that Kinser was a 152 in high school, it's safe to say that he'll be moving up to at least 149 now. Coughlin cannot make 149 any longer (he was a Senior National champ at 152 in high school).
Leen, on the other hand, was a Senior National champ at 130 in his senior year of high school. He has done very well in college and was ranked among the top wrestlers last year.
Reynolds sure was a stud in high school. Pero graduated either last year or the year before, so he's no longer in the mix. I don't know if he would have beaten Tirapelle anyway, but that's a different discussion. What I wonder about is how good it is for Tirapelle to drop to 141 considering in his freshman year he made the Big 10 finals at 149, defeating NCAA finalist Ty Eustice to get there.
Dustin Schlatter v. Brent Metcalf is still the main event we're all looking forward to, but the more I see college sports - especially wrestling - the more I realize how hard it is to elevate to winning every single match over top opponents when everyone is that good. Based on what Schlatter did his freshman year, I thought he was going to be virtually unbeatable. Gillespie proved me wrong. Churella almost beat him. Gable lost only the last match of his career. Donahoe upset Nickerson and Hazewinkel. Time after time we see parity as a major factor in college wrestling.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA D1 - 149 pounds
Roe Fox added to this discussion on September 27, 2007
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I don't want to get too far off topic but from a weight-cutting standpoint it is interesting that Indiana's team the last few years has often had their first year wrestlers cut below their high school weights.
Iowa State on the other hand just announced that the whole line-up is moving up, some a couple of weights. It will be interesting to see the relative improvement in both squads.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA D1 - 149 pounds
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on September 27, 2007
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Roe--I think the main reason we see these cuts is so the best talent can find it's way into the lineup. This season's buckeyes will likely feature T.J. Enright at 133, Jaggers @141 and Picazo @ 174. All three have competed at a higher weight class during their careers. And last year we saw Will Livingston @125 in spite of wrestling at 130 lbs his senior year of high school. I don't know whether or not these cuts are what's best for the wrestler's involved.
Conversely, we're seeing J.D. Bergman move up a weight class. He was a very big 197. I, for one, expect him to wrestle more energetically at 285. But, we'll see.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA D1 - 149 pounds
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on September 27, 2007
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AWN COLLEGE RANKINGS
just out, go to www.amateurwrestlingnews.com
(High School pre-season indiv rankings
also up, its very early but wanted to get something up. Have to start somewhere.)
COLLEGE 125 top 10 (website version has top 20 each wt)
Ohio natives annotated ******
1. Paul Donahoe-Jr, Nebraska
2. Troy Nickerson-Jr, Cornell
3. Angel Escobedo-Soph, Indiana
4. Jayson Ness-Soph, Minnesota
5. Tanner Gardner-Sr, Stanford
6. Obe Blanc-Sr, Lock Haven
7. Charlie Falck-Jr, Iowa
8. David Tomasette-Sr, Hofstra
9. Gabe Flores-Jr, Illinois
10. Mike Sees-Sr, Bloomsburg
133
1. Coleman Scott-Sr, Oklahoma State
2. Tyler McCormick-Jr, Missouri
3. Andrae Hernandez-Jr, Indiana
4. Mack Reiter-Sr, Minnesota
5. Jimmy Kennedy-Soph, Illinois
6. T.J. Enright-Sr, Ohio State****
7. Lou Ruggirello-Soph, Hofstra
8. Zach Tanelli-Jr, Wisconsin
9. Joe Baker-Jr, Navy
10. Nick Fanthorpe-Soph, Iowa State
13. Dan Mitcheff-Soph, Kent State*****
141
1. Ryan Lang-Sr, Northwestern****
2. Charles Griffin-Sr, Hofstra
3. Nathan Morgan-Sr, Oklahoma State
4. Don Fisch-Sr, Rider
5. Brandon Radar-Jr, West Virginia
6. Manuel Rivera-Sr, Minnesota
7. J Jaggers-Jr, Ohio State******
8. Kyle Ruschell-Soph, Wisconsin
9. Alex Tsirtsis-Sr, Iowa
10. Jake Strayer-Jr, Penn State
11. Adam Frey-Soph, Cornell
149
1. Dustin Schlatter-Jr, Minnesota*****
2. Josh Churella-Sr, Michigan
3. Lance Palmer-Soph, Ohio State*****
4. J.P. O’Connor-Soph, Harvard
5. Jordan Leen-Jr, Cornell
6. Scott Ervin-Sr, Appalachian State
7. Brent Metcalf-Soph, Iowa
8. Aaron Martin-Sr, Chattanooga
9. Morgan Atkinson-Sr, Cal Fullerton
10. Jordan Burroughs-Soph, Nebraska
11. Bubba Jenkins-Soph, Penn State
19. Ryan Hurley-Sr, Cleveland State*****
157
1. Gregor Gillespie-Jr, Edinboro
2. Craig Henning-Sr, Wisconsin
3. Mike Poeta-Jr, Illinois
4. C.P. Schlatter-Sr, Minnesota*****
5. Matt Kocher-Sr, Pittsburgh
6. Josh Zupancic-Sr, Stanford*****
7. Ryan Hluschak-Sr, Drexel
8. Brandon Becker-Sr, Indiana
9. Moza Fay-Jr, Northern Iowa
10. Chris Oliver-Jr, Nebraska
11. Cyler Sanderson-Soph, Iowa State
14. Dan Vallimont-Soph, Penn State
165
1. Mark Perry-Sr, Iowa
2. Eric Tannenbaum-Sr, Michigan
3. Mike Miller-Soph, Central Michigan*****
4. Steve Anceravage-Jr, Cornell
5. Michael Cannon-Soph, American
6. Pat Pitsch-Sr, Arizona State
7. Tyler Safratowich-Jr, Minnesota
8. Roger Smith-Bergsrud-Jr, Illinois
9. Matt Coughlin-Soph, Indiana
10. Andrew Flanagan-Soph, Harvard
13. Max Dean-Sr, Oklahoma*********
14. Dave Rella-Soph, Penn State********
174
1. Keith Gavin-Sr, Pittsburgh
2. Matt Stolpinski-Sr, Navy
3. Brandon Mason-Jr, Oklahoma State
4. Steve Luke-Jr, Michigan********
5. Brandon Sinnott-Sr, Central Michigan
6. Gabe Dretsch-Sr, Minnesota
7. Mike Letts-Soph, Maryland
8. Doug Umbehauer-Jr, Rider
9. Dave Erwin-Soph, Penn State******
10. Nick Hayes-Sr, Northwestern
184
1. Roger Kish-Sr, Minnesota
2. Jake Varner-Soph, Iowa State
3. Tyrel Todd-Jr, Michigan
4. Mike Pucillo-Soph, Ohio State******
5. Louis Caputo-Jr, Harvard
6. Raymond Jordon-Soph, Missouri
7. Christian Sinnott-Sr, Central Michigan
8. Josh Arnone-Soph, Cornell
9. Rocco Caponi-Jr, Virginia******
10. Joe Williams-Sr, Michigan State
11. David Craig-Soph, Lehigh
197
1. Josh Glenn-Sr, American
2. Phil Davis-Sr, Penn State
3. Mike Tamillow-Sr, Northwestern
4. Joel Flaggert-Sr, Oklahoma
5. Wynn Michalak-Sr, Central Michigan
6. Max Askren-Soph, Missouri
7. Craig Brester-Soph, Nebraska
8. Dallas Herbst-Jr, Wisconsin
9. Ryan Goodman-Jr, North Carolina State
10. Hudson Taylor-Soph, Maryland
11. Patrick Bond-Soph, Illinois
13. Jared Villers-Sr, West Virginia******
285
1. Dustin Fox-Sr, Northwestern******
2. Bubba Gritter-Sr, Central Michigan
3. Wade Sauer-Jr. Cal Fullerton
4. Mike Spaid-Sr, Bloomsburg
5. Matt Koz-Sr, Chattanooga******
6. Ed Prendergast-Sr, Navy
7. Matt Fields-Sr, Iowa
8. J.D. Bergman-Sr, Ohio State******
9. David Zabriskie-Soph, Iowa State
10. Andy Patrick-Jr, Boise State
17. Rashard Goff-Jr, Cleveland State*****
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Discussion Topic: NCAA D1 - 149 pounds
Roe Fox added to this discussion on September 28, 2007
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Hank: I understand as most of us have jumped rope in the steam room, sat in the sauna, or worked out in rubber suits when we were allowed. But every now and then a discussion crops up about how it should result in better wrestling if the athletes were at a more comfortable weight. I think the former OSU coach at another school now (Ramsey?) posted similar comments here recently.
If ISU dominates there could be some movement at other schools this way. If the talent they have gets pasted, I think not.
On topic we have never ever heard of DS or Metcalf having a tough cut. Not in high school or college. In fact I don't think it was ever mentioned that anyone at National Champ Minnesota cut much. Maybe Reiter. Perhaps they are so gifted DS and Metcalf are special cases. Maybe Lang, if he moves up, actually fares better. It will all be conjecture until the spring.
Bob: Being top five in any weight is great but as a proud OSU homer (who enjoyed every minute of the OSU-NW footbal game last weekend) I'm wondering why Pucillo isn't third. Is it based primarily on NCAAs?
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Discussion Topic: NCAA D1 - 149 pounds
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on September 28, 2007
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Roe--AWN's pre-season rankings are usually done strictly by last season's NCAA finish. Todd beat Pucillo at NCAA's; hence he gets the higher ranking initially.
The topic of wt cutting and it's affect upon performance is always of interest to me. But--and this is without taking a look at ISU's roster--my hunch is that Iowa State's upward movement in wt classes is a good fit for the talent in the room and that's why they're making the move. If the lineup weren't going to benefit, I doubt we'd see as much movement.
Incidentally, I do agree with you that too much cutting adversely affects our sport. I think the strongest evidence of this contention is the poor academic standing of D1 wrestling. While wrestlers are less likely to take basket weaving and golf-they are not doing well as a whole. When you consider the rigorous and time consuming nature of D1 wrestling, throw in the need to be a conscientious student--and then ask a kid to drop 15 lbs a week--it's not hard to figure out why wrestlers do not tend to do well in the classroom (this has been documented but I don't remember where).
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Discussion Topic: NCAA D1 - 149 pounds
Ken Ramsey Sr. added to this discussion on September 28, 2007
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Roe Fox:
Ken Jr. did not post the weight thoughts, it was my opinion on what I have seen through 32 years of youth, high school, collegiate and post college wrestling. And...it still amazes me how much it effects the potential of the wrestlers cutting huge amounts of weight.
Ken Sr.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA D1 - 149 pounds
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on September 28, 2007
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"Bob: Being top five in any weight is great but as a proud OSU homer (who enjoyed every minute of the OSU-NW footbal game last weekend) I'm wondering why Pucillo isn't third. Is it based primarily on NCAAs?"
editor Ron Good of AWN does the college rankings, has for almost 30 years there, and as Hank says AWN publishes conservative rankings to start season.
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Discussion Topic: NCAA D1 - 149 pounds
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on September 28, 2007
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Ken Ramsey Sr.: Thank you for the (positive) bulletin board material! We've tried to tell our kids that if they haven't mastered the techniques, NO weight class is going to work for them!!! I am amazed as to how far down the ladder the weight cutting thing travels. First year middle school wrestlers are asking if they can drop two weight classes!?!?!?!?! Rediculous! How about you learn the proper way to hit a double leg first!
Bob: Thanks for highlighting the native Ohioans. Most names I recognized...some I did not.
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