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Discussion Topic: Actions after winning a national title
Anthony Petrella added to this discussion on March 23, 2009
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Everyone in the wrestling world saw the actions after the 149 lbs match and I wanted to get some feed back. Metcalf was in the wrong for pushing caldwell but darion caldwell should have waited to celebrate. He wrestled an amazing match against a tough competitor and ruined my opinion of him by not waiting until shaking metcalf's hand, let alone celebrating before the match was over. Personally, I don't know if metcalf knew the match was over when he pushed him but I probably would have done something similar or at least been upset had someone gloated in my face before the match was over. I know people are going to say, " let caldwell enjoy his title", but he could have waited and show some class. Although I am a cleveland browns fan... chuck knoll always said to act like you have done it before...
Just my two cents on the subject
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Discussion Topic: Actions after winning a national title
Aaron Gibson added to this discussion on March 23, 2009
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This is my take on the situation, and I want to stress just my own opinion. The wrestling world (myself included) has put Brent Metcalf on a pedastol so high that we made him out to be Superman and pretty much unbeatable. Then bam, the unthinkable happens and a man who Metcalf tech-falled earlier in the season defeats him.
Yes, Caldwell could and should have waited a few more seconds to start his celebration. However, I do not think he was out of line. I have seen numerous high school wrestlers and college wrestlers react like this in times of victory over the years. I do think Metcalf knew what he was doing when he ran after Caldwell. The referee even tried to grab and stop him.
All in all, the situation made Metcalf look worse in my opinion then Caldwell.
Congrats Darrion Caldwell on an NCAA title that was well earned and exciting to see from a fan's perspective!
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Discussion Topic: Actions after winning a national title
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 23, 2009
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Quote from Aaron Gibson's post:
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"This is my take on the situation, and I want to stress just my own opinion. The wrestling world (myself included) has put Brent Metcalf on a pedastol so high that we made him out to be Superman and pretty much unbeatable. Then bam, the unthinkable happens and a man who Metcalf tech-falled earlier in the season defeats him.
Yes, Caldwell could and should have waited a few more seconds to start his celebration. However, I do not think he was out of line. I have seen numerous high school wrestlers and college wrestlers react like this in times of victory over the years. I do think Metcalf knew what he was doing when he ran after Caldwell. The referee even tried to grab and stop him.
All in all, the situation made Metcalf look worse in my opinion then Caldwell.
Congrats Darrion Caldwell on an NCAA title that was well earned and exciting to see from a fan's perspective!"
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I don't think you can justify what Caldwell did by saying many have done it in this "hey, look at me" generation. Did Gable do it? Did Danny Hodge?
Caldwell was completely out of line. Obviously Metcalf was frustrated, and could have handled it better, but to begin that type of celebration clearly before the match was over was WRONG!
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Discussion Topic: Actions after winning a national title
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 23, 2009
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Tony-
IMO, I would not judge them. "judge not, lest ye be judged". Both were caught up in the moment and no serious altercation or repercussion took place. Both are outstanding competitors and have given a tremendous amount of themselves to be great wrestlers. It was the match that everyone had their eyes on and influences everyone that watches it. Take away from the experience the lessons that you learned from their outcome and behavior. You have already evaluated it. For your own personal actions, celebrate after the match is over and don't shove someone out of anger.
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Discussion Topic: Actions after winning a national title
Jeff Sitler added to this discussion on March 23, 2009
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I was actually lucky enough to be sitting on the aisle next to the hall of fame section. Ben and John Peterson, Sergio Gonzales, Gray Simons, Bill Weick etc.. you get the picture. They nearly all thought Metcalf should be penalized, some thought Caldwell should have also been penalized. There were some HOF officials up there as well. I was talking with them, they were sure of Metcalf, but not so sure about Caldwell, I pointed out, they have let the backflip happen before in the finals without penalty, that "clinched" it for them, if let go in the past, then fine now until the rules say no backflip in celebration.
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Discussion Topic: Actions after winning a national title
Anthony Petrella added to this discussion on March 23, 2009
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Rex,
definitely agree. I just thought running away from metcalf and then starting a celebration before the match was over was disrespectful to metcalf... but disrespectful to the sport. This is not basketball or football. We are better than that.
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Discussion Topic: Actions after winning a national title
John Flanigan added to this discussion on March 23, 2009
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Quote from Anthony Petrella's post:
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"Rex,
definitely agree. I just thought running away from metcalf and then starting a celebration before the match was over was disrespectful to metcalf... but disrespectful to the sport. This is not basketball or football. We are better than that."
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One thing that we many times lose sight of, is the fact that these are still young men. He beat the unbeatable opponent on the largest stage for the sport. I am not condoning his actions and thought he should have waited, but that is only my perspective from the sidelines.
However, I am more thrilled at his jubilant display as opposed to seeing someone win and not even be excited. They are
supposed
to be young men, excited at being crowned the best in the country, not robots going through the paces of just another victory. The display may have been wrong, in my eyes, but the emotion was great.
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Discussion Topic: Actions after winning a national title
Mark Palumbo added to this discussion on March 23, 2009
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There seems to be a feeling that what both of these kids did was OK and this is just not true.
It is not ok to show up your opponent ever.
It is not ok to wrestle or shove and opponent after the whistle or out of bounds
Is it ok to get frustrated because of a loss… yes
Is it ok to celebrate after a win… yes
But show some class in both situations, kids look up to these guys.
The celebrations just made an otherwise classy wrestler look bad. I have no issue with the running away. Stalling is part of the sport, but we all know the rules, a match starts and ends with a handshake. I don’t even like when a kid hugs his coaches before shaking hands. They will be there after the match is over. (Handshake)
I’m just glad the kid did not land on his head and break his neck. How bad would that have been?
Neither acted they way they should have. I would not like to see my sons or anyone I’ve coached act like that. It does not matter if it was a JV meet or the Olympics. These kids will have to live with their actions, hopefully they learn from this. If this is the worst decision they make in their lives then they are doing better than most of us. One side note, coaches have influence, I seem to remember brands showing some lack of class at times
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Discussion Topic: Actions after winning a national title
Scott Shaw added to this discussion on March 23, 2009
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Tony, I am glad to see that I taught you enough to see the fault in both wrestler's actions, but you and I both know that you wouldn't have acted in the same manner that Metcalf did even if you wanted to. You have a cooler head than that.
Rex, I have to disagree a little with your take. I will judge their actions as my son witnessed it and I have to judge it to teach him that it is not acceptable to act either way, but, I will fall short of some people's take on it. Metcalf over-reacted and I JUDGE that to be a very poor decision on his part. It was not the reaction of a champion in my opinion. I will not however, JUDGE Brent Metcalf as a person or a competitor based on one poor choice.
I am an educator and coach and I understand that every one of my actions and decisions will be judged by somebody. These young men (caught up in the moment or not) should understand that too. JUDGING by Metcalf's interview after the loss, I think that some of that is setting in for him already.
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Discussion Topic: Actions after winning a national title
Anthony Windsor II added to this discussion on March 23, 2009
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Does anyone else notice that Metcalf has the same facial expression and tone whether he wins or loses¿?
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Discussion Topic: Actions after winning a national title
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 23, 2009
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Quote from John Flanigan's post:
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"
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Quote from Anthony Petrella's post:
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"Rex,
definitely agree. I just thought running away from metcalf and then starting a celebration before the match was over was disrespectful to metcalf... but disrespectful to the sport. This is not basketball or football. We are better than that."
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One thing that we many times lose sight of, is the fact that these are still young men. He beat the unbeatable opponent on the largest stage for the sport. I am not condoning his actions and thought he should have waited, but that is only my perspective from the sidelines.
However, I am more thrilled at his jubilant display as opposed to seeing someone win and not even be excited. They are
supposed
to be young men, excited at being crowned the best in the country, not robots going through the paces of just another victory. The display may have been wrong, in my eyes, but the emotion was great."
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Sort of young. I have seen 14 year olds win skating or gymnastics WORLD championships who knew how to conduct themselves. Age is NOT an excuse.
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Discussion Topic: Actions after winning a national title
John Flanigan added to this discussion on March 23, 2009
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"
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Quote from John Flanigan's post:
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"
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Quote from Anthony Petrella's post:
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"Rex,
definitely agree. I just thought running away from metcalf and then starting a celebration before the match was over was disrespectful to metcalf... but disrespectful to the sport. This is not basketball or football. We are better than that."
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One thing that we many times lose sight of, is the fact that these are still young men. He beat the unbeatable opponent on the largest stage for the sport. I am not condoning his actions and thought he should have waited, but that is only my perspective from the sidelines.
However, I am more thrilled at his jubilant display as opposed to seeing someone win and not even be excited. They are
supposed
to be young men, excited at being crowned the best in the country, not robots going through the paces of just another victory. The display may have been wrong, in my eyes, but the emotion was great."
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Sort of young. I have seen 14 year olds win skating or gymnastics WORLD championships who knew how to conduct themselves. Age is NOT an excuse."
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The difference is that they are not out there at the same time, actually fighting aginst each other. Comparing skating and wrestling is not even close to a valid comparison.
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Discussion Topic: Actions after winning a national title
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 23, 2009
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Quote from John Flanigan's post:
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"
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"
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Quote from John Flanigan's post:
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"
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Quote from Anthony Petrella's post:
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"Rex,
definitely agree. I just thought running away from metcalf and then starting a celebration before the match was over was disrespectful to metcalf... but disrespectful to the sport. This is not basketball or football. We are better than that."
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One thing that we many times lose sight of, is the fact that these are still young men. He beat the unbeatable opponent on the largest stage for the sport. I am not condoning his actions and thought he should have waited, but that is only my perspective from the sidelines.
However, I am more thrilled at his jubilant display as opposed to seeing someone win and not even be excited. They are
supposed
to be young men, excited at being crowned the best in the country, not robots going through the paces of just another victory. The display may have been wrong, in my eyes, but the emotion was great."
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Sort of young. I have seen 14 year olds win skating or gymnastics WORLD championships who knew how to conduct themselves. Age is NOT an excuse."
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The difference is that they are not out there at the same time, actually fighting aginst each other. Comparing skating and wrestling is not even close to a valid comparison."
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So you are automatically more mature if your opponent is not standing next to you. Then use young girls winning tennis championships as an example. Chris Evert was MUCH more mature wining Wimbledon for God's sake than these guys were on a much smaller stage.
Simple point is they are plently old enough to know better, but didn't. Age is NOT an excuse for them.
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Discussion Topic: Actions after winning a national title
John Flanigan added to this discussion on March 23, 2009
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"
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Quote from John Flanigan's post:
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"
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"
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Quote from John Flanigan's post:
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"
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Quote from Anthony Petrella's post:
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"Rex,
definitely agree. I just thought running away from metcalf and then starting a celebration before the match was over was disrespectful to metcalf... but disrespectful to the sport. This is not basketball or football. We are better than that."
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One thing that we many times lose sight of, is the fact that these are still young men. He beat the unbeatable opponent on the largest stage for the sport. I am not condoning his actions and thought he should have waited, but that is only my perspective from the sidelines.
However, I am more thrilled at his jubilant display as opposed to seeing someone win and not even be excited. They are
supposed
to be young men, excited at being crowned the best in the country, not robots going through the paces of just another victory. The display may have been wrong, in my eyes, but the emotion was great."
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Sort of young. I have seen 14 year olds win skating or gymnastics WORLD championships who knew how to conduct themselves. Age is NOT an excuse."
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The difference is that they are not out there at the same time, actually fighting aginst each other. Comparing skating and wrestling is not even close to a valid comparison."
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So you are automatically more mature if your opponent is not standing next to you. Then use young girls winning tennis championships as an example. Chris Evert was MUCH more mature wining Wimbledon for God's sake than these guys were on a much smaller stage.
Simple point is they are plently old enough to know better, but didn't. Age is NOT an excuse for them."
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No, there is a bit of a difference in direct competition than when one follows another. Just because YOU think that people should act a specific way does not mean that they will. Should I pull out examples of older people acting worse and use it to back up my claim? Very simple, yet as meaningless as your argument.
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Discussion Topic: Actions after winning a national title
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 23, 2009
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Regarding the end of the 149 bout:
Caldwell is a hot dog and he showed it.
Metcalf is wound too tight and he showed it as well.
Overall, I think it's not a big deal either way.
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