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Discussion Topic: Is Illinois a better wrestling state (at the high school level) than Ohio?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 28, 2011
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Sure looks that way based on national results over the last several years. While Illinois seems to dominate in Greco and Freestyle events, Ohio languishes. We haven't done much at NHSCA Sr Nationals for years supposedly due to lack of participation. But we've been less relevant in all the major events. We're not showing up to Fargo nor the Cadet/Jr Duals like we used to. The one thing we used to count on-our Jr Freestyle Dual Squad--just went 4-2 in their pool. Not bad for most states but we're supposed to be better than that.
I'm not knocking the kids who are doing it. I recognize they're giving their best efforts.
Instead I'm wondering:
Are we not as good as we used to be? The days when our senior classes dominated all types of major competitions seem to be gone.
Or, perhaps, we're less well organized than we once were? Has something changed so that our best kids are no longer being swept up and dispersed to wrestle in national events?
Or are Ohio schools so fixated on Disney Duals that we're skipping everything else?
Thoughts?
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Discussion Topic: Is Illinois a better wrestling state (at the high school level) than Ohio?
Steve Lester added to this discussion on June 28, 2011
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Good post, Hank.
I think common fans can ask these questions without being accused of playing some type of unjustified "blame game".
"Or, perhaps, we're less well organized than we once were? Has something changed so that our best kids are no longer being swept up and dispersed to wrestle in national events?"
Perhaps, these are the key questions.
We are not likely to get answers to what goes on behind closed doors, but the Burnett-Haverdill combo seemed to be a good one over the past two-year period. The results were there.
Is this to be layed in the lap of USAWrestling-Ohio? Or has that organization ever been a factor in Ohio's success or lack thereof?
I wonder if those with the most real insight would be least likely to comment (and vice-versa, LOL).
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Discussion Topic: Is Illinois a better wrestling state (at the high school level) than Ohio?
Nicholas Sestito added to this discussion on June 28, 2011
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Before we can compare the two wrestling states, one must define what the metrics are for a better wrestling state.
Is it based solely on the success in major high school age events?
International style success vs. Folkstyle success vs. combined success?
Is it based on the number of All-Americans and Champions that come out of college (albeit years removed from high school)?
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Discussion Topic: Is Illinois a better wrestling state (at the high school level) than Ohio?
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on June 28, 2011
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don't despair, theres reasons things happen beyond mere wrestling talent.
Fact is SEAN BORMET-- of renowned OverTime wrestling club near Chicago, he just took U of M asst job--- Bormet is the architect of puting together illinois Olympic styles team. He does great job of geting the states top kids, most other state don't get their top kids on the team, except NJ with coach Buxton of Blair does great job too.
when ohio gets the right organizers ohio does well, last year close 2nd to Illinois, the year before ohio won Junior freestyle duals, the 2 or 3 years before that ohio didnt send a team.
the 2 success year Eric Burnett & Todd Haverdill put the team together, 2 great younger coaches--- its work, its commitment and neither was available to do that this year so Team Ohio wasnt as strong. Just look at the lineup, u can see who wasnt there that could have been.
National TREND in recent years is for alot of top kids, esp graduated seniors, NOT to particpate in post season tourn, or maybe only 1 of them, and Disney duals is very very popular with Ohio kids & families.
nothing post-season is as strong as it was a decade ago, not Fargo, nor Jr duals, not NHSCA events.
Example WHY, Ohio State U's recruits all reported to school a week ago, June 20, they are attending college already and working out hard in wrestling room. .....s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: Is Illinois a better wrestling state (at the high school level) than Ohio?
Nicholas Sestito added to this discussion on June 28, 2011
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"Example WHY, Ohio State U's recruits all reported to school a week ago, June 20, they are attending college already and working out hard in wrestling room. .....s/BobP"
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That's what I like to hear, get in early and start acclimating to what college wrestling is like.
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Discussion Topic: Is Illinois a better wrestling state (at the high school level) than Ohio?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 28, 2011
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Good answers. I appreciate the thoughtful responses. Glad to hear the Buck recruits are already training.
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Discussion Topic: Is Illinois a better wrestling state (at the high school level) than Ohio?
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on June 28, 2011
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Ryan determined not to have another poor season, last one ate at him and his staff, so geting em enrolled in June is a big step forward.
thats another reason i don't see redshirts, Ryan mad about last season--- he AINT just saying to freshmen "nice to see you, would u like a redshirt to acclimate yourself and get comfortable?", he aint handing out redshirts, they will be EARNED if given out at all. ...s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: Is Illinois a better wrestling state (at the high school level) than Ohio?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on June 29, 2011
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Quote from Nicholas Sestito's post:
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"
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"Example WHY, Ohio State U's recruits all reported to school a week ago, June 20, they are attending college already and working out hard in wrestling room. .....s/BobP"
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That's what I like to hear, get in early and start acclimating to what college wrestling is like."
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I have a hunch Ohio State's recruits are not the only ones who did this.
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Discussion Topic: Is Illinois a better wrestling state (at the high school level) than Ohio?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 29, 2011
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The Buckeyes have had the same problem for decades. They can't seem to recruit well with consistency. It pre-dates Tom Ryan though he has had the same issue. This leads to young wrestlers getting rushed into the lineup, having too much pressure put on them, and failing (or not doing as well as expected). The two go hand-in-hand and it is a pattern that needs to end.
Whether or not the staff is mad is irrelevant. What Tom Ryan needs to do is look at the history of this program going back 25 years. He needs to look at who arrived and left and why it occurred. He needs to look at what happened to the wrestlers that stayed and objectively evaluate whether or not they seemed to reach their maximum potential. If he does,he'll recognize how important it is to break this pattern for future success.
There is a lot of young talent at Ohio State right now. But that is not an unprecedented occurrence. What would be unprecedented is to train these wrestlers well and let most of them redshirt. Do with them what you did with Nick Heflin. Heflin is a model for how to do it the right way. He's also a model for the type of kid you want to recruit--one with skills in all three positions (same with Paddock).
Being mad doesn't fix anything. Recognizing mistakes and addressing them is a much better solution. We all want Ohio State to do well.
But the great run of J.D. Bergman, Mike Pucillo, J. Jaggers, Reece Humphrey and Lance Palmer masked this problem. It didn't solve it.
I hope Ohio State proceeds thoughtfully and carefully with the young talent currently in the room.
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Discussion Topic: Is Illinois a better wrestling state (at the high school level) than Ohio?
Nicholas Sestito added to this discussion on June 29, 2011
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"I have a hunch Ohio State's recruits are not the only ones who did this."
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Probably true, but my sentiment still remains the same. The more time you have to get used to college, both academically and athletically, the better.
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Discussion Topic: Is Illinois a better wrestling state (at the high school level) than Ohio?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on June 29, 2011
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Quote from Nicholas Sestito's post:
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"
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"I have a hunch Ohio State's recruits are not the only ones who did this."
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Probably true, but my sentiment still remains the same. The more time you have to get used to college, both academically and athletically, the better."
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I completely agree with that. My point was that OSU is not getting any advantage by their guys doing that, but your statement is definitely true for athletes at all schools.
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Discussion Topic: Is Illinois a better wrestling state (at the high school level) than Ohio?
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on June 29, 2011
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sure its an advantage, up to recently ohio st didnt have the funds to do it and many recruits didnt enroll until Sept..
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Discussion Topic: Is Illinois a better wrestling state (at the high school level) than Ohio?
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on June 29, 2011
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"
I have a hunch Ohio State's recruits are not the only ones who did this."
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WHOA....hold on here...Did Gene Smith quit or get fired or something? What did I miss ;)
Of course tOSU is not the only school to do this. I didn't see anyone imply such a thing. I guess he should have made sure he mentioned that other programs do this when they can as well, so he did not sound like he's tOSU HONK on The Ohio Wrestling Site. What were you thinking dude?
I appreciate that Tom wants to get on things ASAP to avoid a repeat performance. Hopefully we can avoid some of the unpredictables as well.
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Discussion Topic: Is Illinois a better wrestling state (at the high school level) than Ohio?
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on June 29, 2011
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Just checked ESPN.com....nothing on Gene Smith :-D
We've missed you Gary. Seriously...
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Discussion Topic: Is Illinois a better wrestling state (at the high school level) than Ohio?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on June 29, 2011
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Quote from Patrick Campbell's post:
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"Just checked ESPN.com....nothing on Gene Smith :-D
We've missed you Gary. Seriously..."
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Patrick, I know you won't/might not believe this but I totally forgot about having said that. God, it sucks getting old. :( LOL
Thanks for the last comment.
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