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Discussion Topic: New stalling/fleeing rules in college
Fred Feeney added to this discussion on September 13, 2011
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After attending the NCAA rules clinic this past weekend in Virgina...I think the new stalling rules will bring wrestling back to the center of the mat....thoughts?
A wrestler is not permitted to continually back away from the opponent without creating offensive action.
• A wrestler near the edge of the mat cannot step out of bounds unless it is to sprawl from an opponent’s takedown attempt or when interlocked. A participant will be called for stalling if he kicks out from a lower leg hold and as a result of this action the defending wrestler goes out of the wrestling area.
• A wrestler who flees or attempts to flee the wrestling area as a means of avoiding being scored upon will be called for stalling. The committee considers fleeing as an attempt by a wrestler to avoid wrestling action; thus, it is considered a form of stalling and should be similarly penalized.
Wrestlers, whether on offense or defense, must make an attempt to sustain active wrestling and remain inbounds. Stalling will be called in the following instances:
• An offensive wrestler who does not aggressively attempt to break down the opponent will be called for stalling.
• Either wrestler pushing his opponent out of bounds to prevent scoring will be cited for stalling.
• The offensive wrestler grasping the defensive wrestler’s leg(s) with both hands or arms will be called for stalling, unless such action is designed to break down the opponent for the purpose of securing a fall or to prevent an escape or reversal.
• Any wrestler who repeatedly grasps or interlocks his hands around a leg without attempting an offensive move will be called for stalling.
• A defensive wrestler must initiate action to escape or reverse the opponent, or he will be called for stalling.
• A wrestler who repeatedly applies the legs while in the rear-standing position is stalling.
There is no longer a disqualification penalty involved in the stalling rule.
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Discussion Topic: New stalling/fleeing rules in college
Tony Bradberry added to this discussion on September 13, 2011
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Don't like them. I think you are just opening it up for refs to interject themselves into matches even more.
If you don't want a wrestler getting in on a leg and holding on. Go to freestyle.
If you don't like wrestlers laying on top or on bottom. Go to freestyle.
If you don't like wrestlers running out of bounds. Go to freestyle.
I don't understand why we refuse to just switch to freestyle. Freestyle in general is more exciting and would be better for the sport in America. The rest of the world thinks it is good enough for them, yet we refuse to accept it. Maybe make a few changes like the way overtime is done, but overall it lends itself to more action. Even at top level freestyle events you see techs and pins which are what crowds want to see not 1-0 matches with two guys standing looking at each other. Bring in the fact that the moves used to score in freestyle (throws, takedowns to back, gator rolls, etc.) are more appealing to casual fan than blocking off and stalemates, and it is obvious it is better for the sport.
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Discussion Topic: New stalling/fleeing rules in college
Ben Golden added to this discussion on September 13, 2011
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"The offensive wrestler grasping the defensive wrestler’s leg(s) with both hands or arms will be called for stalling, unless such action is designed to break down the opponent for the purpose of securing a fall or to prevent an escape or reversal."
What are the other possible reasons to grab onto the defensive wrestlers' leg(s)?
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Discussion Topic: New stalling/fleeing rules in college
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on September 13, 2011
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I think the rules committee was thinking about top wrestlers who constantly drop to a leg and then hang on until a stalemate.
It appears to me that some of these rules are designed to force the top man to ride actively rather than just try not to lose control. And obviously they're trying to address wrestlers that constantly play the edge on their feet.
What surprised me was the call against wrestlers that push without making an effort to score. It's about time.
As Tony noted, however, we're likely to see more stalling calls as a result of these changes. The stalling call is always problematic because of its subjectivity. I think, as he noted, that will prove to be an issue.
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Discussion Topic: New stalling/fleeing rules in college
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on September 13, 2011
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Discussion Topic: New stalling/fleeing rules in college
J.P. Barner added to this discussion on September 14, 2011
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"I think the rules committee was thinking about top wrestlers who constantly drop to a leg and then hang on until a stalemate.
It appears to me that some of these rules are designed to force the top man to ride actively rather than just try not to lose control. And obviously they're trying to address wrestlers that constantly play the edge on their feet.
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Then why not just eliminate riding time?
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Discussion Topic: New stalling/fleeing rules in college
Mark Palumbo added to this discussion on September 14, 2011
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"A participant will be called for stalling if he kicks out from a lower leg hold and as a result of this action the defending wrestler goes out of the wrestling are"
I don't like this one. You are taking out the right to defend yourself. This is perfectly legal in the middle of the mat, but because you got attached on the edge you must not use this defense. Not good.
Not that I'm in favor of it, but if you want to force action and make the match move faster, make the rule that anyone who goes out of bounds from any postion give up a point. Works in FS and in Sumo.
Also why take away the DQ? Seems counter to everything above it.
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Discussion Topic: New stalling/fleeing rules in college
Tony Bradberry added to this discussion on September 14, 2011
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Quote from Mark Palumbo's post:
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""Also why take away the DQ? Seems counter to everything above it."
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Because they know there will be more stalling calls and they don't want to end a bunch of matches on DQ just by pointing them to death.
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Discussion Topic: New stalling/fleeing rules in college
Mark Palumbo added to this discussion on September 14, 2011
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Tony,
Do you think these rules/calls will slow down the matches and make it harder for the avg fan to understand our sport?
I think the more complex they make it the harder it will be to promote the sport to fans and introduce it to new athletes.
Just my thoughts
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Discussion Topic: New stalling/fleeing rules in college
Tony Bradberry added to this discussion on September 14, 2011
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I think adding more referrer interaction in the outcome of a match will make it less appealing to the casual fan. If you want to follow these rules for calling stalling to a "T" we could have matches where guys are scoring 4 and 5 points off stalling calls. Do we really want that?
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Discussion Topic: New stalling/fleeing rules in college
Fred Feeney added to this discussion on September 14, 2011
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Tony,
Referees apply rules as written by the rules committee...which is made up of....coaches.
We are out there...to keep things on a level playing field.
By increasing stalling call penalties...makes me think that coaches will now have their wrestlers, wrestle int he middle of the mat...and not play the edge.
How often do see wrestlers playing the edge? That's pretty darn exciting isn't it?
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Discussion Topic: New stalling/fleeing rules in college
Christopher Henderson added to this discussion on September 14, 2011
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Is it time for folkstyle wrestling to adopt the current push-out rule of international freestyle?
I had a bad feeling when I first heard about it, but in practice the push-out point has really helped to keep the action in the middle and shortens the length of a match by minutes without wrestlers walking back to the middle over and over. This rule will also make the transition from folkstyle to freestyle that much easier. I can't see any negatives so far.
I would love to hear some differing thoughts regarding the push-out rule.
One more thing. I can't believe they kept the rule where you can just "shoot" on a leg and hold on until stalemate without getting called for stalling. That seemed like the most obviously needed rule change.
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Discussion Topic: New stalling/fleeing rules in college
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on September 14, 2011
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In high school wrestling, a wrestler with a lead in the third period is put under tremendous pressure. He's sometimes forced to make bad offensive attempts simply to keep the ref from giving points to his opponent via the stall call. You can have a match where one wrestler gets three TD's and one escape and the other wrestler has four escapes and it becomes tight because of stall calls. In college, the officials have always shown more respect for the wrestler that has earned the lead and allowed him to wrestle defensively as long as he doesn't back up too much and engages his opponent.
I hope this doesn't change. It's one of the aspects of college wrestling that I prefer to high school.
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Discussion Topic: New stalling/fleeing rules in college
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on September 14, 2011
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Hank, I have to respectfully disagree. The wrestler with the lead is under less pressure than the wrestler who is losing. He has far more available to him as long as he isn't gassing out and making it obvious. If he is gassing, shouldn't the losing wrestler have a chance to win? As we all know, getting into the third period with a lead does not assure victory. At least it should not. The match is 6 or 7 minutes long and you have to wrestle all of them.
Why is he "forced to make bad offensive attempts"? Why can't he make GOOD attempts or, failing that, just attempts? If he make a bad attempt, that is not the fault of the official. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt. If the wrestler is making attempts (and not a leg slap or something like that), I won't look at him as stalling.
Keep in mind that there is a warning prior to any points being awarded. If you haven't been warned, use it to your advantage. If you have been warned, just be carefully aggressive.
I also disagree that college officials show more respect for the winning wrestler. Their rules are different and allow (or encourage) riding. That makes a huge difference. It has zero to do with respect. I respect all the wrestlers on my mat but I have to obey the rules and call what I see.
That being said, I am going to be very interested in seeing how this all plays out.
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Discussion Topic: New stalling/fleeing rules in college
Ben Golden added to this discussion on September 14, 2011
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"I think the rules committee was thinking about top wrestlers who constantly drop to a leg and then hang on until a stalemate. "
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I get that, but isn't that "trying to prevent an escape"?
I just don't like the new rules, I guess.
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