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► Add to the Discussion Page 1, 2  Next Discussion Topic: The Numbers Don't Lie Dom Mancini added to this discussion on November 27, 2011 Back in the spring I reported the distribution of weight classes based on the lowest weight class that a wrestler could qualify for under the Optimal Performance Calculator - as stated before we know that not all kids are going to the lowest weight but most likely will end up only one weight class up. So with 80% of the data in here is where the numbers are 106 8.34% 103 6.16% 113 6.27% 112 7.13% 120 9.27% 119 8.98% 126 9.66% 125 9.62% 132 9.95% 130 8.42% 138 10.06% 135 8.49% 145 9.85% 140 7.89% 152 7.22% 145 7.27% 160 6.42% 152 8.66% 170 6.82% 160 6.68% 182 6.89% 171 6.36% 195 3.32% 189 6.93% 220 3.26% 215 4.41% 285 2.68% 285 2.99% With the NFHS trying to reach a 7% distribution of weight classes I can tell them that for the state of Ohio they failed miserably, in fact I would bet after all the data is in, there will be twice as many kids participating in the 120 - 145 lb weight classes compared to the 195 and up. Once again my opinion is that this was a horrible decision and a diservice to the kids involved in wrestling. more to come.......... for clarification the second numbers are the ones from the spring compared to where we are right now - I will have actual numbers and percentages in mid December when 99% of the data is entered.        Discussion Topic: The Numbers Don't Lie Rex Holman added to this discussion on November 28, 2011 I agree that a governing body should use statistics and reason to identify weight classes. Letting go of old standards based on anecdotal evidence is totally biased and kind of like letting a third grader pick the numbers based upon what they feel is right. eeek!        Discussion Topic: The Numbers Don't Lie Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on November 28, 2011 This data just shows what most people who know the sport have been saying all along.        Discussion Topic: The Numbers Don't Lie Bob Preusse added to this discussion on November 28, 2011 "Letting go of old standards based on anecdotal evidence -- -- -- --." Rex, u say "anecdotal" but according to the NFHS it was NOT based on anecdotal evidence. In fact according to the NFHS news release in april it was based on- and i quote- "a 3 to 4 year process utilizing data from the NWCA optimal performance calculator." "The goal was to create wt classes that have approximately 7% of the wrestlers in each weight class." This is exactly what is so puzzling, both organizations, which are supposed to represent the best interests of amateur wrestling, CLAIM it was based on STATS-- however almost no one directly involved with the sport believes that. Thus the disconnect. ...s/BobP        Discussion Topic: The Numbers Don't Lie Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on November 28, 2011 Bob: The claim is bogus. When the wt classes were changed around 1989, the new ones were based on random samples that were mathematically accurate. Those changes showed that weight distribution is a bell curve with the majority in the middle. According to the Federation, the distribution is no longer a bell curve; kids are statistically larger. It's implausible (fatter but not larger). Someone wanted to add an upperwt. In a year or two, they'll reverse this decision.        Discussion Topic: The Numbers Don't Lie Bob Preusse added to this discussion on November 28, 2011 yes Hank, certainly i know claim is bogus, didnt u get my tongue in cheek? of course its bogus-- my point was NFHS/NWCA claims it was based on stats, not anecdotal. Stats which almost no one believes. ..s/BobP        Discussion Topic: The Numbers Don't Lie Rex Holman added to this discussion on November 28, 2011 Points well taken.        Discussion Topic: The Numbers Don't Lie Jim Behrens added to this discussion on November 28, 2011 As an official,I do not have a dog in this fight. However, I am the Secretary for the Greater Cleveland Coaches and Officials Association. We have approximately 80 coaches in the Association and I am as sure as I can be that not one of my members was contacted, in any way or form, about this change. Now, maybe that is just the way the whole thing worked out but I would doubt it. I have yet to talk to any coach who had any input to the whole process. That tells me quite a bit.        Discussion Topic: The Numbers Don't Lie Bob Preusse added to this discussion on November 28, 2011 "We have approximately 80 coaches in the Association and I am as sure as I can be that not one of my members was contacted, in any way or form, about this change." ----------------------- Jim, well the NFHS press release dated april 26 2011 states- and i quote-- "Througout the process each state association was kept completely informed and was provided multiple opportunites for input." this begs the question, how can amateur wrestling be improved-- or even SAVED-- if our leadership organizations are out of touch with the rank & file? ...s/BobP        Discussion Topic: The Numbers Don't Lie Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on November 28, 2011 Quote from Bob Preusse's post: "Jim, well the NFHS press release dated april 26 2011 states- and i quote-- "Througout the process each state association was kept completely informed and was provided multiple opportunites for input." " Quote from Bob Preusse's post: "In fact according to the NFHS news release in april it was based on- and i quote- "a 3 to 4 year process utilizing data from the NWCA optimal performance calculator." "The goal was to create wt classes that have approximately 7% of the wrestlers in each weight class."" Given these two quotes, particularly compared to the reality of the situation, it seems clear that the decision makers in this matter have no idea what they're doing...and are likely lying about it.        Discussion Topic: The Numbers Don't Lie Jim Behrens added to this discussion on November 28, 2011 That was pretty much why I wrote what I did. There might be a coach (or some coaches) in Ohio who was involved in the process but I have yet to speak to him. It might be that what Bob posted tells us what we need to know. "each state association was kept completely informed" Notice that it says "state association"? That would be the OHSAA. There is certainly the chance that Columbus knew about this and/or had input. However, none of it seems to have come from the people who know the sport, the Coaches.        Discussion Topic: The Numbers Don't Lie John Robert Dula added to this discussion on November 28, 2011 My thoughts only: The fairest way to distribute the weight classes would be to statistically sample the weight of High School students and apply it to the wrestling weight classes. The distribution would be in the shape of the bell shape curve that Hank referred to. There would be more weight classes in the middle of the curve(where the majority of students weigh)and less on either end of the curve. The weight class distribution now favors the upper and lower weight classes.(less wrestlers per weight) The wrestlers in the middle of the bell curve are at a disadvantage. (more wrestlers per weight)        Discussion Topic: The Numbers Don't Lie Rex Holman added to this discussion on November 30, 2011 Came across this during training yesterday. Theme of big organization that does not quite get it right made me think of this thread. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwl1biSvTiY Best to get a dual photoelectric and ionization smoke detector.        Discussion Topic: The Numbers Don't Lie Mark Niemann added to this discussion on November 30, 2011 No audio the first time, but watched the entire thing anyway. I'll be interested to know if HH Gregg funded this segment. ;-P        Discussion Topic: The Numbers Don't Lie Rex Holman added to this discussion on November 30, 2011 Kind of loses its' meaning without the sound and I thought it was a Colbert Report comedy when I first saw it.        ► Add to the Discussion Page 1, 2  Next