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Discussion Topic: Top 10 pound for pound
Leo Zimmer added to this discussion on March 22, 2012
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Discussion Topic: Top 10 pound for pound
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 22, 2012
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just reported, Penn State’s David Taylor Wins 2012 Dan Hodge Trophy
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Discussion Topic: Top 10 pound for pound
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on March 22, 2012
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Wow - great news. Very deserving.
I have a friend who is a big wrestling fan in IL. He emailed me Monday morning that Taylor is the best college wrestler he's ever watched.
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Discussion Topic: Top 10 pound for pound
Jack Muni added to this discussion on March 22, 2012
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And if the wrestling gods are smiling on us, Dake will move up to 165 next year and be with Taylor & Howe.
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Discussion Topic: Top 10 pound for pound
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 22, 2012
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If I were to list my top six pound for pound.
Taylor, Dake, Oliver, Ruth, McDonough and Russell.
Russell won back to back at a very deep weight class. And he got better as the season wore on. (Hunter took him down three times in two matches. That might be the most of any opponent he faced in his career).
McDonough makes my list because he has owned this weight class for three years (losing to Robles shouldn't count against him. Not discounting Robles skill...it's just that wrestling him requires markedly different preparation).
Ruth was the most physically dominant wrestler in the nation.
Dake went undefeated and makes beating everyone look routine.
Taylor's looks to be the finest college wrestler since his coach.
Jordan Oliver is the most skilled all around wrestler not named David Taylor. I think he was cutting too much weight. And in spite of it, he was seconds away from winning #2.
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Discussion Topic: Top 10 pound for pound
Brian Morrow added to this discussion on March 23, 2012
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I like David Taylor alot but I question the depth at 165. I am not sold on him being at 1 til he wins a tough weight class. I believe Stieber won a much harder class.
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Discussion Topic: Top 10 pound for pound
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 23, 2012
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I think 9 in that list are certainly top 10. I'm not sure about the order. My boy McDonough is not ahead of Stieber & Oliver. Not sure that Simaz and Molinaro should be quite as high in the list. As much as I would not pit my skills these days against Tony Nelson, I don't think he is a top 10 lb for lb wrestler. We have had some 285s in the past that fit that bill, but I just don't think Nelson is on that list right now.
As much as I agree that 165 was not the toughest class this season, I don't think that takes away from just how good David Taylor really is. It may be a crap shoot between he and Ruth, but I do believe he is a 1/2 step ahead of Dake and would in fact manufacture some scoring against Dake. I don't think he would major Dake. He would consistently win 2 out of 3 over Dake if they were competing for the same spot. Just my opinion. It would be way more fun if we could see it play out.
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Discussion Topic: Top 10 pound for pound
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 23, 2012
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J Jaggers was once quoted as saying the difference between numbers 2 and 20 in one weight class is the smallest mistake. Now we are being asked to cross weight class thresholds, ensuring a smaller margin for error!
But...
I like Patrick's statement about the depth of 165 - I do not think it would matter. D.T. is that good. And I also agree that it would be AWESOME!!!!!!! to see him and Dake square off. The donnybrooks of all donnybrooks!!!
1. D.T.
2. Ed Ruth
3. Dake
One of the things I ponder when trying to do this is which guy could bump up a weight and a) win or b) make it competitive. I'd love to see a PSU four man go with Taylor, Ruth, Brown (back up 174) and Wright.
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Discussion Topic: Top 10 pound for pound
Jan R. Maynard added to this discussion on March 23, 2012
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[quote="Mark Niemann"]J Jaggers was once quoted as saying the difference between numbers 2 and 20 in one weight class is the smallest mistake. Now we are being asked to cross weight class thresholds, ensuring a smaller margin for error!
But...
I like Patrick's statement about the depth of 165 - I do not think it would matter. D.T. is that good. And I also agree that it would be AWESOME!!!!!!! to see him and Dake square off. The donnybrooks of all donnybrooks!!!
1. D.T.
2. Ed Ruth
3. Dake
Jaggers was absolutely correct.
I have attended most of the NCAA Tournaments since Kent State in '63.
You are on deck and ready to go and there's a blood or injury time out. Your legs can heavy up on you very quickly.
Just so many factors combine in getting to the Finals; being able to focus totally and luck among them.
The Big Ten's next year are going to be a treat. It appears to be the most brutal Conference meet that I can recall. My old College Mates and I are making plans for them at Illinois now.
I love the Steibers; they are fantastic. However, I can't tell you how many 2's have been awarded at the NCAA's in that exact predicament as was the Okie State kid, Oliver.
Dake/St Johns turned ugly in the second period and stayed ugly.
I love Chris Honeycutt but he appeared to empty his tank early in the second. A disappointment for him, I'm certain.
David Taylor is one of those special wrestlers who has fantastic mat presence. And indeed, D.T. will have a more obstructed path next year.
I believe Howe will be at Michigan and Dake may well move up.
All in All, one of the best of all the Dances I've had the pleasure in attending.
It rained hard on St Patricks day. After a very nice Lunch, my friends hailed Cabs for us. I heard them muttering how crazy I was as I headed into the rain to walk the mile + to the Hotel.
A Buckeye transplanted in a desert has needs, don't they my fellow Buckeyes, and I was the wettest, happiest old Desert Buckeye in the world at that moment.
P.S. I fail to understand why they will be moving to a smaller venue next year when the attendance and amenities of St Louis are accomodating record crowds. But I will be there.
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Discussion Topic: Top 10 pound for pound
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 24, 2012
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Discussion Topic: Top 10 pound for pound
Grant Varnum added to this discussion on March 25, 2012
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i would argue that Derek St John is at the least, a #11. everyone (including me) is so quick to put Dake on the list...but this was the first time i have seen Dake pushed to the limit - challenged - and ultimately spent at the end of the match.
St John went into that match expecting to win, unlike 99% of Dake's opponents who just try to minimize the spread. If Dake doesnt bump up to see Taylor next year, there is at least one guy with two thumbs that will be looking forward to a D-squared rematch (Dake/Derek)............THIS guy, right here...
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Discussion Topic: Top 10 pound for pound
Brian Mathews added to this discussion on March 25, 2012
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Quote from Grant Varnum's post:
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"i would argue that Derek St John is at the least, a #11. everyone (including me) is so quick to put Dake on the list...but this was the first time i have seen Dake pushed to the limit - challenged - and ultimately spent at the end of the match.
St John went into that match expecting to win, unlike 99% of Dake's opponents who just try to minimize the spread. If Dake doesnt bump up to see Taylor next year, there is at least one guy with two thumbs that will be looking forward to a D-squared rematch (Dake/Derek)............THIS guy, right here..."
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I think you're giving St. John far too much credit. We've all seen Dake wrestle A LOT of close matches during the regular season. This match looked a lot like one of those --- Dake scores, Dake secures riding time, Dake shuts it down. The number of times St. John shoved forward and smacked Dake in the face doesn't actually count for much in my book. Give me a few legit shots and/or chances to score before you get any credit.
Dake's performance at NCAA's last year (namely against Molinaro) is what might make St. John look much better.
One huge disclaimer here is that we aren't really sure how much St. John was held back by his knee. I'm operating under the assumption that he was close to full-go.
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Discussion Topic: Top 10 pound for pound
Doug Gainous added to this discussion on March 25, 2012
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Logan should be higher on this list.
1.Taylor
2.Ruth
3.Logan
4.Dake
5.Russell
6.Oliver
7.Mcd
8.Molinaro
9.Simaz
That would be my fantasy draft rankings.
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Discussion Topic: Top 10 pound for pound
Quinn McGee added to this discussion on March 26, 2012
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Quote from Jack Muni's post:
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"And if the wrestling gods are smiling on us, Dake will move up to 165 next year and be with Taylor & Howe."
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Doesn't Tyler Caldwell have another year left too? That would be one wicked weight class if they all go 165.
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Discussion Topic: Top 10 pound for pound
J.P. Barner added to this discussion on March 26, 2012
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[quote="Jan R. Maynard"]
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"J Jaggers was once quoted as saying the difference between numbers 2 and 20 in one weight class is the smallest mistake. Now we are being asked to cross weight class thresholds, ensuring a smaller margin for error!
But...
I like Patrick's statement about the depth of 165 - I do not think it would matter. D.T. is that good. And I also agree that it would be AWESOME!!!!!!! to see him and Dake square off. The donnybrooks of all donnybrooks!!!
1. D.T.
2. Ed Ruth
3. Dake
Jaggers was absolutely correct.
I have attended most of the NCAA Tournaments since Kent State in '63.
You are on deck and ready to go and there's a blood or injury time out. Your legs can heavy up on you very quickly.
Just so many factors combine in getting to the Finals; being able to focus totally and luck among them.
The Big Ten's next year are going to be a treat. It appears to be the most brutal Conference meet that I can recall. My old College Mates and I are making plans for them at Illinois now.
I love the Steibers; they are fantastic. However, I can't tell you how many 2's have been awarded at the NCAA's in that exact predicament as was the Okie State kid, Oliver.
Dake/St Johns turned ugly in the second period and stayed ugly.
I love Chris Honeycutt but he appeared to empty his tank early in the second. A disappointment for him, I'm certain.
David Taylor is one of those special wrestlers who has fantastic mat presence. And indeed, D.T. will have a more obstructed path next year.
I believe Howe will be at Michigan and Dake may well move up.
All in All, one of the best of all the Dances I've had the pleasure in attending.
It rained hard on St Patricks day. After a very nice Lunch, my friends hailed Cabs for us. I heard them muttering how crazy I was as I headed into the rain to walk the mile + to the Hotel.
A Buckeye transplanted in a desert has needs, don't they my fellow Buckeyes, and I was the wettest, happiest old Desert Buckeye in the world at that moment.
P.S. I fail to understand why they will be moving to a smaller venue next year when the attendance and amenities of St Louis are accomodating record crowds. But I will be there."
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I read another mention of Howe not going back to Wisky - anyone know more? Would be a very poor choice if he ended up at TSUN. :)
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