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Discussion Topic: Fargo Notes
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on July 17, 2012
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FR starts tomorrow I believe.
In Greco, Ohio U had a champ (Kevon Powell - IL) and a runner up (T.J. Fox). Thought that was pretty cool.
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Discussion Topic: Fargo Notes
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on July 20, 2012
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Looks like Ohio will have 11 AAs in Cadet FS. Pretty solid, I think?
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Discussion Topic: Fargo Notes
Christopher Henderson added to this discussion on July 20, 2012
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Ohio is looking pretty good this year. Could OU become the hub for greco wrestling in Ohio the way tOSU is for freestyle? I think Coach Greenlee should push that and use it as a way to recruit. I can't wait to see how the Cats do this coming season. It has to be one of their best lineups in a long time.
Also, how about Collica from my alma mater making it to the finals? He beat some top notch guys! I'm definitely watching the final live tomorrow.
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Discussion Topic: Fargo Notes
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on July 20, 2012
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Any intel about where Collica is leaning for college?
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Discussion Topic: Fargo Notes
Al McIntosh added to this discussion on July 21, 2012
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Major congrats to:
Nathan Tomasello becomes a 2x Junior National Freestyle Champ @ 120 lbs.
Anthony Collica becomes a Junior National Freestyle Champ @ 145 lbs.
Two local kids from Northeast Ohio win Junior National Freestyle titles....Pretty cool!
Both will be among the most sought after recruits going into their senior year. Neither wrestlers has verbalized a commitment to any college yet.
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Discussion Topic: Fargo Notes
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on July 21, 2012
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imo Tomasello one of the VERY GREATEST lightwts in ohio high school history, big statement, but it seems appropriate. Back to back fargo jr free titles is a big deal, 2 Ironman titles, 3 state titles going into his senior year. ...s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: Fargo Notes
Ben Golden added to this discussion on July 21, 2012
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I don't know if I'd say he's one of the very greatest, but that's only because there have been such tremendous lightweights in the state. I love Tomasello though, and he is a great one. He always seems so incredibly focused on meeting his goals. He's intense. He wrestles wildly hard. He puts in the work. It will be a pleasure to see him wrestle at the next level--hopefully he can put on a few more pounds by then.
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Discussion Topic: Fargo Notes
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on July 21, 2012
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"imo Tomasello one of the VERY GREATEST lightwts in ohio high school history, big statement, but it seems appropriate. Back to back fargo jr free titles is a big deal, 2 Ironman titles, 3 state titles going into his senior year. ...s/BobP"
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Finally...Bob and I are on the same page :-)
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Discussion Topic: Fargo Notes
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on July 22, 2012
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Ben says, "I don't know if I'd say he's one of the very greatest, but that's only because there have been such tremendous lightweights in the state."
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Ben, ok name them, let's debate it on a website where people like knowledgeable debate, "The greatest lightwts in ohio history" and does Tomasello fit?? i say yes, u express doubt.
And remember Tomasello has a year to go to add to his credentials, of course he could have mediocre senior year but i'm doubting it baring injury like occured to Jamie Clark.
i think its reasonable to limit it to be guys who spent their career at 127 or below to be called lightwts.
Name only for HIGH SCHOOL accomplishments and only the ELITE please, which will exclude some favorites i'm afraid who were very very good but perhaps not quite elite? --Here are the few elite ohio lightwts i recall:
127 & below, i can think of Tom MILKOVICH, Jim JORDAN, Eric BURNETT, Dane TUSSEL, Shawn NELSON, Kyle OTT, Logan STIEBER--- Harry LESTER & David TAYLOR are included imo, because they spent their first 3 years at 127 or lower.
But, Alan Fried spent his last 2 years in the 130s and 140s so hes out. Dustin Schlatter & J Jaggers out too for same reason. ---who'd i miss? ...s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: Fargo Notes
Ben Golden added to this discussion on July 22, 2012
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Well I was going to count Schlatter and Jaggers. But your list is good--some of those guys aren't even on my radar but that's quite possibly because I haven't been paying attention long enough.
I look at guys like Taylor, both Stiebers, and Schlatter. They didn't just win their weight classes, they truly dominated them. They weren't scraping through and gutting out these championships, they were dominating all their opponents. They were a level above pretty much everyone, and they faced elite competition. Hunter fits this description a little less than Logan, Taylor, and Schlatter, but I still think he was a step above where Tomasello is.
So basically... Tomasello is fantastic. But the "very greatest" of Ohio lightweights are just incredible.
Interesting note: Dustin Schlatter has wins over two of the 7 freestyle Olympians--Coleman Scott and Jordan Burroughs. If Metcalf (or Schlatter himself, for that matter) had made the team, he would have wins over 3 guys who have risen to the absolute top of our nation's pile... but that's a shoulda coulda woulda.
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Discussion Topic: Fargo Notes
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on July 22, 2012
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Ben, elite as he was Dustin Schlatter stumbled too, lost twice in Ironman his soph year, took only 5th at 119 pounds, were u aware of that?
i checked and his junior year DS was 125 so YES contrary to what i orginally thought he makes the lightwt list, imo-- he was 145 his senior year.
Is Tomasello as great as Dustin Schlatter? maybe not but he's on the elite lightwt short list i think, based on his 3 years of high school so far.
how many ohioans have won back to back Jr free titles? an exceedingly few. Harry Lester won Zero, he lost in the finals, Ryan Bertin took 3rd-- Tommy Rowlands and Jaggers won one each, its quite an achievement to win back to back.
If Tomasello combines his credentials with a 3rd Ironman title and a fourth state title -- -- --? but that is yet to be determined. We will have to see how it unfolds. In wrestling i assume nothing. ...s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: Fargo Notes
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on July 22, 2012
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"--Here are the few elite ohio lightwts i recall:
127 & below, i can think of Tom MILKOVICH, Jim JORDAN, Eric BURNETT, Dane TUSSEL, Shawn NELSON, Kyle OTT, Logan STIEBER--- Harry LESTER & David TAYLOR are included imo, because they spent their first 3 years at 127 or lower."
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One thing i would say is it's almost impossible to exclude college and post college accomplishments. Even if you don't include them in the discussion, they creep into your mind and affects they way they are perceived. How do you talk about Jim Jordan with allowing his TWO NCAA titles to cloud yor view. As great as Harry Lester was, i feel like his true greatness was not realized until his success on the World level. Also, college can sort of validate a career. Like how Nelson and Burnett achieved All American status.
BTW, Your list above would have been my list as well. It really puts Logan Stieber's greatness into perspective when you put him along side those names and compares so favorably.
Finally, in this context, and perhaps any other, Tomesello would be on the short list of the very greatest Ohio light weights
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Discussion Topic: Fargo Notes
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on July 22, 2012
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Mike, yes post high school achievements effects ranking in peoples minds, but i still try to wall it off.
Here is WHY, anyone who saw them would include Chad OWENS, Don TOMKO Jimmy JOHNSON, Luke FICKELL and Johnny McGHEE among ohio's all time elite/very greatest high school wrestlers-- but not much if anything following high school though. Cant take away their hs records though, they are among the ohio elite.
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Discussion Topic: Fargo Notes
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on July 22, 2012
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I totally agree with what you're saying, and that is another great list, but when you compare those names to other "greats"--- Owens to Schlatter, Johnson to Fried, McGhee to Luke, Tomko to Holman and Fickell to Rowlands, I would argue that most fall just a bit short due, in large part, to the college success of the latter wrestlers. Obviously we'll never know who was better at their best in high school, but it does make for good discussion.
BTW, I think Fickell is the only one of the above mentioned wrestlers that was better than the wrestler I compared him to.
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Discussion Topic: Fargo Notes
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on July 22, 2012
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Mike, well i merely made a "based on High School" statement re Tomasello and the thread was about Tomasello winning fargo again. ---college and beyond is another subject, that could not include Tomasello obviously since he's only completed 3 years of high school.
and i just looked up Brakeman year 2000 all-time team, he's got 4 of my 5 on his All-Time First team: Tomko, Johnson, Fickell, Johnny McGhee.
And Chad Owens? well let me put it this way, Johnny McGhee's dad once told me Owens was the greatest he'd ever seen--- Urban legend i guess but his rep is still out there 25-30 years later so i think he's a pretty good mention.
and how tough was JOHNNY McGHEE????? i once attended a Coventry & Walsh Jesuit scrimmage, when both were in their prime at Bill Barger's invitation. Walsh had HESKETT, KNUPP, the BIG names. No one wanted to wrestle with Johnny McGhee-- NO ONE. Johnny McGhee would throw anyone on their assss and no one could ride him, he was like a bucking bronco. ...s/BobP
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