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► Add to the Discussion Discussion Topic: Overtime v FILA criteria Harry Lester added to this discussion on June 4, 2013 I would like to get an idea of what you think Greco should do for world team trials, either use the current FILA criteria to determine the match (which I personally don't know so I don't expect you to know), or go to a unlimited overtime period with passivities called! Please explain why you would pick either. I want to present some of the opinions to USAW executive board when making the final decision for trials procedures.        Discussion Topic: Overtime v FILA criteria Bob Preusse added to this discussion on June 5, 2013 a gracious offer by Harry, let's help him out, we got some savvy Greco posters on here (i'm Not one of them so i'll stay silent). Tony Bradberry, Will Knight, among others, chime in. When a 2X World bronze medalist asks for our ideas, its an opportunity. ...s/BobP        Discussion Topic: Overtime v FILA criteria Mark Niemann added to this discussion on June 5, 2013 Agreed, Bob. My thing is, I kind of like the 1:30 neutral, :30 par terre. Another option for a tie is what I proposed for FS - 0:00, clock counts up, no passivity. Someone will collapse... Eventually.        Discussion Topic: Overtime v FILA criteria Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 6, 2013 Harry: I don't have a clue. During my coaching days, I helped train kids in Greco (and my knowledge was scant) and loved the competition. The kids wrestled greco the way we want to see it--aggressive and with lots of scores. But at the highest level it just seemed as if no one could score. I actually thought the rule changes for the last few cycles were helpful because they forced action from par terre. As to what should be done now with OT....I don't know. Sorry not to be more helpful.        Discussion Topic: Overtime v FILA criteria Ben Golden added to this discussion on June 6, 2013 I think most will agree that some criteria is a terrible way to determine a victor. What using a criteria tells fans is that the rule makers don't care about crowning the better wrestler, they just care about crowning a wrestler and getting the match over with. The fans feel short-changed and the loser feels cheated. The winner will gladly take the 'W' and correctly say that he won fair and square within the rules, but would probably tell you that it's a cheap way to award a victory. Here's one idea for overtime in greco: Have the wrestlers lock up in over-unders and first score wins. It's a position that's engaged and thus somewhat conducive to quick action, but it's a neutral greco position where neither guy has an unfair advantage (as in the case of the late freestyle clinch).        Discussion Topic: Overtime v FILA criteria Tony Bradberry added to this discussion on June 6, 2013 I kind of like the idea of both guys standing hip to hip one faces one direction and the other opposite. both guys lock their hands around the other guys waist one arm across the back one underneath (think reverse lift). Unlimited time limit whoever scores first wins if someones hands come unlocked and a move isn't completed in a few seconds they lose. It's basically a double reverse lift situation. I think this would create some pretty good throws and is basically 50/50. There may be a slight advantage in the order of locking it up.        Discussion Topic: Overtime v FILA criteria Rex Holman added to this discussion on June 6, 2013 Rules changes have been frequent and while attempting to encourage attacks and reward the offensive wrestler, it does not guarantee much. The sport is not broken however the rules need to guarantee that the more active and offense generated attack is rewarded. In doing so, it sets the bar for the style which is engaged by the wrestlers. I like an objective passivity; not some arbitrary tit for tat call. The way to do so is to have a zone in which passivity is called and the wrestler with his back to the zone has to increase their pace in order to get back to center. This guarantees that the wrestler who has gained that mat position is rewarded and there is an opportunity to cut off the mat and earn a passivity call against the opponent. This passivity call can be the difference in the match. There was a variation of this rule when I grew up and it still makes rational sense to me. Also, it goes hand in hand with the push out rule. This is wrestling at its' most basic when skills have been mitigated due to competitive excellence and there is an inability to score by conventional attacks. I like the idea of 2x3 minute periods. If at the end of that time the match has not been decided, a third 3 minute period. If no score, a pushout from a smaller circle with the athletes beginning from and over/under. This is the fairest way to determine an outcome IMO.        Discussion Topic: Overtime v FILA criteria Reece Humphrey added to this discussion on June 10, 2013 The rule changes for freestyle are great, we need to do something similar for greco. They need to take out winning the period and have a cumulative scoring system. It isn't rewarding enough to take a risk in greco right now. Hence, why so many periods go 0-0 and the entire match is decided in partir. Thats just my opinion though.        Discussion Topic: Overtime v FILA criteria Reece Humphrey added to this discussion on June 10, 2013 The rule changes for freestyle are great, we need to do something similar for greco. They need to take out winning the period and have a cumulative scoring system. It isn't rewarding enough to take a risk in greco right now. Hence, why so many periods go 0-0 and the entire match is decided in partir. Thats just my opinion though.        Discussion Topic: Overtime v FILA criteria Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on June 12, 2013 Harry, I'll give my opinion with this: I was at the Sydney Olympic trials. I enjoy freestyle WAY WAY more than greco. The match I remember most from the trials is the deciding match between Denis Hall and Brandon Paulson. I talk about that match at least once a year. Just talked about that match today with Randy Thome (dad of Casey and Jordan). He was at those trials also and also remembered that epic match as well. You put a 1:30 and :30 par terre as OT for that match and it would be remembered by only family and friends of those two.        Discussion Topic: Overtime v FILA criteria Doug Brandt added to this discussion on June 13, 2013 Quote from Brady Hiatt's post: "Harry, I'll give my opinion with this: I was at the Sydney Olympic trials. I enjoy freestyle WAY WAY more than greco. The match I remember most from the trials is the deciding match between Denis Hall and Brandon Paulson. I talk about that match at least once a year. Just talked about that match today with Randy Thome (dad of Casey and Jordan). He was at those trials also and also remembered that epic match as well. You put a 1:30 and :30 par terre as OT for that match and it would be remembered by only family and friends of those two." I was in Indianapolis for those trials. The Hall-Paulson match was amazing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujyPJL56cWg        Discussion Topic: Overtime v FILA criteria Rex Holman added to this discussion on June 14, 2013 You guys just totally hit on the answer to the rules. The rules must be set up so that the viewer is emotionally engaged in the event and the competitors can show their true grit and skill. It is what happens in all marketable sports. The current rules lend themselves to confusion, a small niche of skill and grit does not play as big a role as it should.        Discussion Topic: Overtime v FILA criteria Jeff Streu added to this discussion on June 15, 2013 I, as well as another coach that I work with, think that an unlimited neutral overtime period would be the coolest way to decide the winner.        Discussion Topic: Overtime v FILA criteria Mark Niemann added to this discussion on June 15, 2013 Quote from Jeff Streu's post: "I, as well as another coach that I work with, think that an unlimited neutral overtime period would be the coolest way to decide the winner." 0:00 and start counting up at the whistle!        ► Add to the Discussion