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Discussion Topic: The Pattern Continues
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 1, 2014
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The Bucks have now lost three winnable Big Ten duals for the same reason--they keep losing close matchups.
Against Wiscy, it was an upset of Heflin and Roberts getting pinned.
The Nebraska Dual blew up when four guys took early leads and still lost. Courts and Roberts not only lost--they got stuck. Both looked in control when disaster struck. Tav was also cruising when he got annihilated on bottom. All those matches were even or favored us on paper.
Michigan beat Ohio State because they won four weights that appeared close--125, 133, 149 and 184. Reverse two of those outcomes, and the Bucks win. In those four matches the Bucks had a total of two TD's.
Even in the win against Illinois, Roberts had a raggedy Delgado on the ropes but lacked killer instinct. Martin got turned in the last 30 seconds and then the coaching staff apparently had no strategy for him in OT top position and handed the match to Dallago.
Here are the things bugging me the most:
1) Where are our upsets? Name one Buckeye wrestler in a recent dual that has turned in an unexpected win? Martin over Munster perhaps. That's it.
2) OT wrestling. Why can't we ride for 30 seconds? That's coaching--period. There has to be a strategy in place for each wrestler that fits his style.
3) Why do our opponents seem to have strategies that work, ie: Abounader expected the low single and knew exactly how he was going to try to counter it, while we don't seem to have similar plans?
4) Coaching/Scouting: How did the Bucks not know that Nebraska was good with that turk? Was that the first time all year the Cornhuskers used that move? Why do I continuously see our guys losing because their opponents understand our tendencies and when to push? Even Logan's loss--where he seemed completely unprepared to counter a tough leg wrestler--points this out.
5) Top wrestling: Where is it? Paddock's top skills seem to have regressed since his frosh season. Other than Logan, who in this lineup has a scary ride?
There are bright spots. Randy Languis and Joe Grandominico continue to do their jobs. I thought Languis had a sluggers chance to pull the upset last night until the coaches put him on bottom to start the third. He had a better chance to win from neutral. Grandominico was in danger of giving up the MD when he capitalized on a mistake and scored. That's heady wrestling. Tavanello, excepting that horror show against Nebraska, gives a big effort.
I'll stop here. Nuf said I'm sure.
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Last edited by Hank Kornblut on February 2, 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: The Pattern Continues
Jack Muni added to this discussion on February 1, 2014
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When I watch Courts I think of the term Rex used, "fear of fatigue". Sporadic shots with some energy, but no constant attacking. And for crying out loud, when is he going to use that tilt of his? Or the firemans?
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Discussion Topic: The Pattern Continues
Rex Holman added to this discussion on February 1, 2014
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Hank-
I think I just heard a hammer hitting a nail on the head. BTW, David and Goliath by Malcolm Gladwell is a quick read. UM owned top (in closely contested matches)and that is the big difference in the dual, The one variable that anyone can point to and say, "there."
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Discussion Topic: The Pattern Continues
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 1, 2014
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Love Gladwell. Will read immediately. Thanks.
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Discussion Topic: The Pattern Continues
John Robert Dula added to this discussion on February 1, 2014
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I think most of us knew this would be a rough season as TOSU built for next year and beyond. TOSU should be okay for the next couple years due to recruiting. However, looking at the latest High School rankings, I do not see as many top ranked wrestlers from Ohio as there has been in the past. PA has many and will have an advantage recruiting. In the mean time "Wait until next year."
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Discussion Topic: The Pattern Continues
Doug Gainous added to this discussion on February 1, 2014
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Great post Hank! I'm not convinced that the insertion of new talent fixes some of the issues you bring up. Specifically the poor mat wrestling.
I'm also reminded of something Rex posted before. Something about preparing for a college match.
"How am I going to keep this guy off my *@&%$@* head?"
Seemed like Michigan pushed us around in our own gym last night...and I hated watching Garajlas finish the match flexing to our crowd.
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Discussion Topic: The Pattern Continues
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on February 1, 2014
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if u want a good laugh go back in time on here--
but here's one of our smartest posters, she went against the grain, where is she now? Come back Julie Thomas, theres way too much homerism nonsense on here nowadays. i quote from her 2011 prophetic post:
Discussion Topic: Kenny Courts' bracket at the PIAA State Tournament
JULIE THOMAS added to this discussion on March 15, 2011
"Look I am as much a buckeye fan as any but I read on another forum and did a search in the local newspapers on Courts win. Seems he is suffering from physical problems again, first one knee then the other and now back problems, I truly believe that all his physical ailments will come back to haunt us. Kind of like Jamison.
Another thing, if and when he does wrestle in the Dapper Dan tournament, hate to say it but McIntosh will beat Courts. I have said this from the first time I saw we recruited this kid, too many injuries, not enough mat time doing freestyle and greco in the summer, he will not know what hit him when he walks on the mat in the tOSU wrestling room.
There were many other things posted about this kids work ethic as well on other forums but that is not my beef. My beef is his potential physically not to be able to take the grind. Go ahead guys you can hate on me all you want, I may be a woman but I follow wrestling."
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Discussion Topic: The Pattern Continues
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 1, 2014
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Quote from John Robert Dula's post:
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"I think most of us knew this would be a rough season as TOSU built for next year and beyond. TOSU should be okay for the next couple years due to recruiting. However, looking at the latest High School rankings, I do not see as many top ranked wrestlers from Ohio as there has been in the past. PA has many and will have an advantage recruiting. In the mean time "Wait until next year.""
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Rough season?
125: Nick Roberts, 3x PA champ
133: JDJ, 3x Ohio champ
141: Logan, 4x Ohio Champ
149: Paddock, 4x NY Champ
157: Languis, Ohio State Champ
174: Martin, Ohio State Champ
184: Courts, 3x PA Champ (or was it twice?)
197: Heflin, Ohio State Champ
285: Tavanello, 3x Ohio Champ
Most schools outside the top ten would kill to have this type of talent in their room. Yet, our attitude seems to be...wait until next year when we have more talent! I call Bullshit. Ohio State upped the expectations with a strong performance in Vegas and now they can't live up to it. That's the bottom line.
Why?
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Discussion Topic: The Pattern Continues
Don Bork added to this discussion on February 1, 2014
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The wrestling season is a long grind. TOSU seemed to wrestle well in Vegas and Tom Ryan and staff usually have the team peaking at tournament time. I don't think teams can wrestle at their peak all season long. There are bound to be some letdowns. Michigan did just come off a win over Minnesota. With that being said, I question so many things about our team. I don't see marked improvement over time with most of our wrestlers. Many on this forum, after Vegas, were discussing JDJ's barrel roll in terms of here's whats coming, try to stop it. Well, both the Nebraska wrestler and the Michigan wrestler did just that. If a well coached wrestler only has to defend one move of his opponent it should be easy to stop. JDJ brought the barrel roll with him from high school. Now in his third year at TOSU what has he added to his neutral game? I won't pick on JDJ any further. He seems to me to have a degree of toughness and enthusiasm that some of our other kids lack. I see us inserting backups into our lineup and they seem to wrestle as though their mission is to only give up 3 team points. Other elite programs seem to expect their backups to win matches. We don't seem as tough or as physical as the better D1 teams. We don't ride well and we have experienced wrestlers that don't seem to have any idea how to tilt or turn for points. With the exception of Nick and Logan nobody scored points Friday. I understand that this was going to be a down year and that next year will be better, but lacking toughness and conditioning and a lack of improving each individuals overall skillset is a recipe for continuing to hold us back from ever competing with the top tier programs.
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Discussion Topic: The Pattern Continues
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on February 1, 2014
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As usual, Hank brings great insight and has the onions to say what many are thinking.
I have a soft spot in my heart for Roberts, he looked crushed after the loss. I can imagine he is wrestling under a lot of pressure with Tomasello in the room. That's not an excuse, just an observation. Many on here thought he was the favorite against Michigan, I was unclear why that was the consensus. Recent results showed Youtsey is on the verge of being excellent.
I posted a couple weeks ago, incorrectly thinking that a few years ago OSU RS'd a couple studs and sacrificed a year, that this fan base doesn't want the 'wait until next year' motto. Too much talent in the state and in the room.
Expectations are tricky. We expect OSU to be excellent. They're ranked 12 and the fan base is upset, and probably appropriately. The alternative to having fans who aren't mad when you lose is having fans that don't care, which would be much worse.
What hasn't been mentioned is that UM is performing well above expectations, it seems their athletes are developing. Since hiring Bormet and Pritzlaff UM has felt like a sleeping giant. They are waking up.
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Discussion Topic: The Pattern Continues
Don Bork added to this discussion on February 1, 2014
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To be fair, Michigan is wrestling 3 true frosh while
TOSU is redshirting 3 studs. Giving TOSU a pass for this year, we should be top 5 or 3 in the next few years. This can only happen if we continue to bring in top shelf recuits.
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Discussion Topic: The Pattern Continues
Doug Brandt added to this discussion on February 1, 2014
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"Hank-
I think I just heard a hammer hitting a nail on the head. BTW, David and Goliath by Malcolm Gladwell is a quick read. UM owned top (in closely contested matches)and that is the big difference in the dual, The one variable that anyone can point to and say, "there.""
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Rex, I recently read David and Goliath. When I read about the girls basketball team that decided that the only way they could win was by pressing like crazy, I thought that Tom Ryan- any coach, for that matter, would find the book interesting.
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Discussion Topic: The Pattern Continues
Christian Pyles added to this discussion on February 1, 2014
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"if u want a good laugh go back in time on here--
but here's one of our smartest posters, she went against the grain, where is she now? Come back Julie Thomas, theres way too much homerism nonsense on here nowadays. i quote from her 2011 prophetic post:
Discussion Topic: Kenny Courts' bracket at the PIAA State Tournament
JULIE THOMAS added to this discussion on March 15, 2011
"Look I am as much a buckeye fan as any but I read on another forum and did a search in the local newspapers on Courts win. Seems he is suffering from physical problems again, first one knee then the other and now back problems, I truly believe that all his physical ailments will come back to haunt us. Kind of like Jamison.
Another thing, if and when he does wrestle in the Dapper Dan tournament, hate to say it but McIntosh will beat Courts. I have said this from the first time I saw we recruited this kid, too many injuries, not enough mat time doing freestyle and greco in the summer, he will not know what hit him when he walks on the mat in the tOSU wrestling room.
There were many other things posted about this kids work ethic as well on other forums but that is not my beef. My beef is his potential physically not to be able to take the grind. Go ahead guys you can hate on me all you want, I may be a woman but I follow wrestling.""
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That is awesome..
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Discussion Topic: The Pattern Continues
Jared Ball added to this discussion on February 1, 2014
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Great insight all the way around. I'm curious of our dual meet woes may be due to something simpler. I read on the bucks twitter feed where someone asked Coach Ryan what it took to be a buckeye wrestler. Among other attributes he mentioned healthy eating and weight management. After watching the last couple of duals I can't help but think perhaps some of the fellas are struggling in this arena. Robert's body language during blood time/injury time was horrible. Hands on his knees, gasping for breath, etc. I noticed a similar thing with Courts, and even JDJ seemed to run short on gas late in the match. We came out aggressive in a lot of these matches but couldn't close the deal. You get an hour after weigh-ins in a dual right? Tourneys allot for much more. Perhaps these guys are just sucked out.
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Discussion Topic: The Pattern Continues
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 2, 2014
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Ethan--thanks for the compliment.
Many good comments and I appreciate that people came forward to offer up their thoughts and insights as to why the Buckeyes have struggled so much in conference duals.
I also want to take a moment to apologize to Ken Courts and Nick Roberts. I should not have singled them out as I did. Both were outstanding high school wrestlers who have chosen to compete at the next level. It's a lot tougher and they're trying to adjust. They're under enough pressure without having to endure unkind comments on message boards.
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