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Discussion Topic: Question for Refman (or any official)
Scott Shaw added to this discussion on January 22, 2008
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Fred, you were talking about a coach stating to you that you hate him and "homer" calls on the tOSU/Iowa topic. I didn't want to steal that topic so I started a new one.
My question is this, as an official, how do you not hold that kind of behavior against a coach in the future?
Fred, if you remember a few years back, your mentoree Kevin Petrella got you to come to Hartley to officiate a dual with a certain team, with certain coaches, that decided (after I told them the night before on the phone that I personally did not have a problem with it, but that it was a middle school rule that allowed for it and you were officiating and would not let it slide) to weigh their team in at their home school at lunch time, only to show up and have you tell them to line-up for weigh-ins. Now, they had kids that were 7, 8, even 9 pounds over weight (from lunch at Noon until 4 they had put on 9 pounds??) and they were mad and yelling and cussing at me, my AD, and most especially YOU.
Now, I know that it did not make you very happy. How do you not hold that against them, maybe not in the future, but at least in that dual?
I know that you guys are professionals and have to learn to deal with situations like that with a cool head, but it is things like that day that would keep me from becoming an official to begin with.
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Discussion Topic: Question for Refman (or any official)
Fred Feeney added to this discussion on January 22, 2008
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Scott,
Good question.
Though a coach can get under your skin, he isn't the one on the mat wrestling. How he behaves in the chair might get him a warning or point quicker because of his attitude, it is NEVER transfered to the wrestler.
Rules are rules. If a coach wants this rule or that rule waived....it isn't personal its just the rules. That coach that wanted the weigh in rules altered didn't understand, nor did I tell him, that had I altered the rules I am in violation of OHSAA/NFHS regs and could be held liable if a kid was injured during a match by a kid that didn't weigh in legally. I carry $10,000,000 in liablilty insurance to protect myself and my family. I will never jeopardize my assets just because some coach doesn't understand the rules.
As far as the coach saying I hate him....he needs to look deep into his heart and see just where the heck that is coming from.
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Discussion Topic: Question for Refman (or any official)
Scott Shaw added to this discussion on January 22, 2008
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Very good point about the coach not being the one on the mat. Thank you for your quick and honest response. Be safe and have fun the rest of the season. I hope to see you Saturday at the Sally George.
Sometimes WE coaches have got to make you officials just shake your heads and laugh <crazy> !!
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Discussion Topic: Question for Refman (or any official)
Fred Feeney added to this discussion on January 22, 2008
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The stories I could tell!! lol
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Discussion Topic: Question for Refman (or any official)
Cliff Cahill added to this discussion on January 22, 2008
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OK then why would Gene Smith not follow up and send a letter to the Big Ten Commissioner asking for the rules to be enforced and let the heat come from the top through the structure of referee association and thus take it out of the hands of any individual ref. The association via recommendation of Big Ten mandates the refs to enforce the rules to avoid any bad wrestling publicity in the future.
I think this guy has always played as close to the line as public pressure has allowed with an in your face attitude toward refs and it still continues.
The shoving out of bounds after a whistle I would hope is a violation. A continuation is a disqualification. Now as a coach same ol same ol in the entire process. One of these days that line will be crossed by two parties and all hell will break out. When I am on the jury I will vote to take all of Freds insurance money if he were the ref that would not control the environment through hard coded rules violations not checked by the charged authority as the reason for the rules were be vivid during the trial.
Why are they not vivid now in a simple discussion discussion?
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Discussion Topic: Question for Refman (or any official)
Fred Feeney added to this discussion on January 22, 2008
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Cliff....what are you talking about concerning Gene Smith?
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Discussion Topic: Question for Refman (or any official)
Cliff Cahill added to this discussion on January 23, 2008
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Fred - please
They are trying to get sports fans to act appropriately at games for a variety of reasons. Gene Smith is leader of this effort. If fans started to get out of control I am sure he would have followed up with something either immediately on the mic in worse case or article in paper reminding fans of expected Buckeye behavior. In an away situation he would send a letter to the home A.D. discussion the importance of control.
I do not see any difference in fan misbehavior and that of Brands walking within few feet of the middle of the mat while the clock is running multiple times and the ref doing nothing not even a warning. I would expect then Gene Smith in same way he would handle fan situations to also handle this situation only this time going through his Big Ten brothers to the referees structure whatever that is to have a discussion of the importance of control by enforcing rules on the books. All other coaches walk around to table to call over ref - why is it only Brands is allowed to abrasively walk directly out on the mat.
Surely Fred you understood this point without me being so specific for now the specifics will be worked on instead of the principle involved as I know you the #1 moderator in wrestling forums surely understand the urges to debate opposed to listening and understanding a point.
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Discussion Topic: Question for Refman (or any official)
Fred Feeney added to this discussion on January 23, 2008
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Cliff, my dear friend... I wasn't sure what you meant... now I know. I agree 100% that ANYTIME a coach steps onto the mat as it occurred in the OSU/Iowa match it should of been handled differently. Misconduct is the penalty, the coaches get two before the team points start to get deducted then removal. I will tell you that every referee has either called me, emailed me or I talked to that saw that match wondered why Jim didn't ding Brands and Ryan for coming onto the mat.
Our association, the CWOA, assigns all Big Ten, MAC, most OAC and other D3 and D2 matches in several states. We stress in emails, clinics etc that every referee needs to be consistent every match, no matter who is in the corner.
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Discussion Topic: Question for Refman (or any official)
Cliff Cahill added to this discussion on January 23, 2008
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Fred my friend - where are the mics - no no no
Yes I knew your view and I for sure know you would have had no problem dinging Brands once, twice, or throwing him out if he just did not get the picture - a distinct possibility in my view. It just seem to have got lost in the discussion so I drilled deeper and cranked up the spin etc trying to get the point across. Rules are for a purpose and without enforcement the purpose is lost in some cases with tragic results in which case the highest level of authority needs held accountable. Here Gene Smith setting there watching and no follow up garantees a repeat with the more repeats the more probable the tragic results become a result.
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Discussion Topic: Question for Refman (or any official)
Fred Feeney added to this discussion on January 23, 2008
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Cliff..mics are coming....don't worry!
I had a "discussion" with coach Brands at the 2006 Midlands on the first day of competition. I warned him and he said "fine..I'm not going to talk to you the rest of the tournament". Exactly why the rule is in place.
The 2nd day during semis in a Iowa/Iowa State match, I stopped a potential pinning situation for Iowa because of a potentially dangerous situation. The crowd booed unmercifully and I prepared myself for a onslaught from Coach Brands at the table. When I got there, he quietly said "I assume you stopped that because of the potentially dangerous position of his arm?". I replied..."yes sir" He said.."ok".
From day on...and I have seen Iowa in several different tournaments since including this years Midlands, Tom Brands has always been a gentleman to me.
The rule is there for a reason. It works.
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