|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Jordan Ernest Burroughs "The GOAT"
Scott Nicola added to this discussion on September 21, 2019
|
John Smith is my hero and his six consecutive World/Olympic Titles in a row remain an incredible accomplishment that may never be repeated by a US wrestler. That said, greatness is measured in many ways, and I believe JB has overtaken John and Big Bruce for for several reasons.
1. Quality of competition-John took all comers home and abroad and was very rarely tested (except by Fisher and the Cuban guy). With the fall of the Soviet Union it has become much more difficult to win an World or Olympic Title because instead of having to face one Russian there are now opportunities guys to to compete for other former Soviet Republics such as Georgia, Kazakstan, Uzbekistan,and Azerbaijan. This makes the field much deeper. In addition Jordan had to fend off some incredible talent to even make the team with two of these guys (Dake and Taylor) eventually moving to other weights and winning world titles.
2. The way he has adapted as he has aged-Had Jordan retired after the 2016 Olympics he would still be talked about as one of the alltime greats. "He's lost a step." "Can't do what he used to do physically" seemed to be the consensus after 2016. Out went the offense focused fakes and doubles and JB started winning with singles, pushouts,and quick transitions from takedowns to his lace. Amazing that a guys that had so much success had the coachability to make these changes later in his career.
3. His courage/grit/mental toughness-I have never seen anyone wrestle with as much nuts and guts as this man. Weather coming from behind against the best in the world, dealing with dirty tactics by Eastern European, having to beat wrestlers and officials, or winning worlds with a broken ankle, he finds a way. This year at the age of 31 he came back from being down 4 to win twice and battled back to take bronze after a heartbreaking loss in the last second. Truly the heart of a champion!
4. What he has meant to USA Wrestling-When JB burst on the scene USA wrestling was in shambles. Medals were hard to come by we had forgotten what gold looked like. Jordan called his shot (Alliseeisgold) and delivered right out of the gate. He paved the way for guys like Snyder,Cox, Dake,and Taylor. While Snyder's dramatic win over Saduliev sealed the deal for the USA team title, Jordan coming off a DNP in 2016 and beating Tblasov (who looked unbeatable) lit the match and inspired others to believe. He is the undisputed leader of this team and has been for a long time.
5.The kind of man he is-I know he gets extremely physical and pushes the limits in close matches but JB has always been a class act. He competes in every charity event and makes himself available to fans and younger wrestlers. He doesn't makes excuses for losses and in fact often gives credit and respect to his opponents in interviews. Wins and loses with dignity.
9 consecutive world teams, 8 world medals, and 5 World/Olympic titles. The Greatest Of All Time!
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Jordan Ernest Burroughs "The GOAT"
Jeff Streu added to this discussion on September 21, 2019
|
All great points. Not to take anything away from Smith, as I think his six straight will stand as a US record for a while and his style was revolutionary, but there were also more weight classes in Smith's era, and the championships format was a little different too, right? If I recall, there was one year that Smith got beat but still won his pool and got the opportunity to advance to the gold.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Jordan Ernest Burroughs "The GOAT"
Jared Ball added to this discussion on September 22, 2019
|
Jeff is correct. Jordan has also maintained his elite level of winning through multiple sets of rule and format changes. No easy task adapting from the clinch and ball grab era.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Jordan Ernest Burroughs "The GOAT"
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on September 22, 2019
|
“That’s cute.” - Bruce Baumgartner
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Jordan Ernest Burroughs "The GOAT"
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on September 22, 2019
|
Nah. Still give me John Smith. Imagine if $ was there back then. Entirely different opportunities today. FYI he was 27 when he retired.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Jordan Ernest Burroughs "The GOAT"
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on September 23, 2019
|
Line from the film Stand By Me--"Who's stronger, Mighty Mouse or Superman?"
Bottom line is that Burroughs remains one of the greatest in USA history along with Smith, Baumgartner and Snyder. Cox and Dake are entering the territory of guys like Schultz and Kemp. I'm sure I'm leaving out some worthy people as I'm too lazy to look things up.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Jordan Ernest Burroughs "The GOAT"
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on September 23, 2019
|
|
Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
|
|
"Line from the film Stand By Me--"Who's stronger, Mighty Mouse or Superman?"
Bottom line is that Burroughs remains one of the greatest in USA history along with Smith, Baumgartner and Snyder. Cox and Dake are entering the territory of guys like Schultz and Kemp. I'm sure I'm leaving out some worthy people as I'm too lazy to look things up."
|
Mark Schultz, Kenny Monday, Tom Brands, Cael Sanderson, Henry Cejudo (off the top of my head because I'm lazy like Hank) all could have accomplished similar results if the systems we have today (RTC, Sponsorship, etc) would have been in place back then. Guys competing past 27-28 was a rarity back then because to do so meant the life of a pauper. It's fantastic that these guys are finally getting paid!
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Jordan Ernest Burroughs "The GOAT"
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on September 23, 2019
|
|
Quote from Scott Nicola's post:
|
|
"John Smith is my hero and his six consecutive World/Olympic Titles in a row remain an incredible accomplishment that may never be repeated by a US wrestler. That said, greatness is measured in many ways, and I believe JB has overtaken John and Big Bruce for for several reasons."
|
u make great points and may well be right, but i gota go with John Smith ...6 in a row-- consecutive. Its like Dimaggio's famed 56 game hiting streak, which has never been approached. The word consecutive means a lot.
A couple Russians have won 7 or 8, Fadsayev and Buvasar Saitev (sp?) however i don't think anyone other than Smith has won 6 consecutive.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Jordan Ernest Burroughs "The GOAT"
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on September 28, 2019
|
Will Dake beat Burroughs for the Olympic spot?
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Jordan Ernest Burroughs "The GOAT"
Scott Nicola added to this discussion on September 28, 2019
|
There is a very real possibility that this could happen and I think most would pick Dake at this point. If Dake does win the spot it doesn't diminish Burroughs accomplishments. All that said I think Burroughs will surprise people and find a way to get it done.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Jordan Ernest Burroughs "The GOAT"
Jared Ball added to this discussion on September 28, 2019
|
Is it possible that Kyle Dake and David Taylor both fail to ever make an Olympic team? If both fail to make the team this year I think they’ll be 32 or 33 in 2024. That would be pretty unbelievable if it did happen.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Jordan Ernest Burroughs "The GOAT"
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on September 29, 2019
|
Dake is currently the most dominant member of the USA team in my opinion. He's beating everyone in the world and makes it look easy.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Jordan Ernest Burroughs "The GOAT"
Don Bork added to this discussion on September 29, 2019
|
I think it’s sad that there are only 6 Olympic year weight classes. So many quality wrestlers, not just from the USA, that will never compete due to the narrow opportunity. I would mildly disagree with you Hank. I have to go with “the matrix” J’den Cox. Really hope he drops back to 86kg for 2020. Love Kyle Snyder, hope not to see that match up. It would be a shame for either not to be representing.
I also expect another rematch at 74kg between Burroughs and Dake. Knowing that between these 4 and Taylor that 2 will be spectators.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Jordan Ernest Burroughs "The GOAT"
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on September 29, 2019
|
Don: No question that J'Den is equally impressive. Put another way--the two finest wrestlers in the USA currently are neither Snyder nor Burroughs. And both of them are still incredible. This is a golden era for USA wrestling.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Jordan Ernest Burroughs "The GOAT"
Jared Ball added to this discussion on September 29, 2019
|
They are certainly the most successful right now, but how much of that success is tied to them competing in substantially weaker non Olympic weights? Neither Dake or Cox has wrestled anyone near the caliber of the the last three guys Snyder wrestled or the gauntlet that Burroughs has to withstand. Dake still doesn’t look as explosive as he was last year, probably remnants of the injury. Cox is the absolute best version of himself right now. What will it take to reinstate wrestling back to the ten weights?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
