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Discussion Topic: Pennsylvania Propposes eliminatimg a weight class
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on May 4, 2020
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Discussion Topic: Pennsylvania Propposes eliminatimg a weight class
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on May 4, 2020
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IMO, this has been needed for some time. The last changes in about 2011 really hurt the middle weights where, as logic would have it, the majority of wrestlers happen to be.
Of course there are people who think this eliminates "opportunities" but when the majority of schools can't fill a line up, is anything really lost?
A side benefit is that it would eliminate 1 1/2 pages of dual meet time breaking procedures from the rule book.
However to answer Hank's question, unless the NFHS adopts the idea, I really can not see the OHSAA changing anything.
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Discussion Topic: Pennsylvania Propposes eliminatimg a weight class
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on May 5, 2020
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Ohio is usually behind the curve in most things. The wt classes make no sense. We need to eliminate at least one upper wt
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Discussion Topic: Pennsylvania Propposes eliminatimg a weight class
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on May 5, 2020
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Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
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"IMO, this has been needed for some time. The last changes in about 2011 really hurt the middle weights where, as logic would have it, the majority of wrestlers happen to be.
Of course there are people who think this eliminates "opportunities" but when the majority of schools can't fill a line up, is anything really lost?
However to answer Hank's question, unless the NFHS adopts the idea, I really can not see the OHSAA changing anything."
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agree and the PA initiative eliminates 195, as well it should. #1 problem right now, other than the corona virus crap, is to eliminate FFs in dual meets--- they are
killing the attraction of duals, making a mockery of them in some cases.
RE NFHS adopting, it can still be approved by PA. Theres one state i believe that defied the NFHS in 2011 and never followed the NFHS weight class changes.
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Discussion Topic: Pennsylvania Propposes eliminatimg a weight class
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on May 5, 2020
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looking back, in 2011 here was this reporters column in AWN, ahead of its time. Current upheaval overdue imo. NFHS used bad data or made bad judgement on good data, either way was-- imo-- a screwup that has never been corrected.
June 2011 column:
The National Federation of State High School Associations announced on April 26 that the most significant weight class changes in 23 years will take place in the 2011-2012 season. The NFHS commmittee approved an upward shift of the weight classes begining with the 103 pound class moving to 106 pounds, which resulted in new weights for 10 of the 14 classes.
Essentially the NFHS added another weight class near the very top and eliminated one weight class between 125 and 145 pounds. The new weights will be 106, 113, 120, 126, 132, 138, 145, 152, 160, 170- and now there’s 182, 195, 220 and 285 pounds where we had 189, 215 and 285 last season.
Unhappiness With New Weights
There is unhappiness with the new weight classes among prominent high school coaches I contacted, and there were some very negative reactions. Ohio Hall of Fame head coach Tony DiGiovanni of Solon high school had two Ohio Divison I state champions last season in an affluent suburban school where it is not easy to get motivated wrestlers in all the classes, especially the highest weights.
Coach DiGiovanni told me, “Bob, my problems with the changes are: Attending numerous varsity/JV/Frosh events yearly, I just can not explain how 14% of all ‘wrestlers’ fall between 196 and 285 (even harder to comprehend is 7% between 221 and 285) as those two weights have the most forfeits, even more than 103 which is a weight class designed perfectly for the "wrestling lifer"; an individual who is, most likely, too small to excel at the state or national level in other sports.”
“The schools that will benefit from this change are schools that can pursue ‘a big boy’ when and where needed, such as open enrollment and private. The fastest way to a good state tourney showing is a group of strong upper weights, because most upper weights play numerous sports well and many eventually leave wrestling for greener and easier pastures.
This leaves the upper weights weaker in comparison depth wise. While the little guys, who live and breath wrestling, are left with fewer opportunities. The little men are the lifeblood of the sport. I had always hoped that the gap between 103 and 112 would be closed while creating more opportunities for "lifetime wrestlers" such as: 100, 107, 114, 120, etc.”
“I do believe 7% of the student body in high school today does fall into the listed range; however not 7% of the "wrestling student body" who remains at the end of each season. These may be the boys who certified, but it is certainly, in my opinion, not the correct range of weight classes for the boys who finish the season, year in and year out. It has been my experience, that 5 to 1 upper weights will walk away from the sport before a lightweight.”
What Ohio Data Says
Head coach Dom Mancini of Boardman Ohio took the time to calculate (Optimal Performance Calculator) results for this season in Ohio, which I would guess is close to other states in terms of percentages in each class.
Coach Mancini says this data represents all Ohio wrestlers that certify for their lowest weight class. We know that not all kids go down to the lowest weight, but none the less this is solid data to approximate the total number of kids in each weight class. This shows that the 125 through 140 classes contain an average of 1219 wrestlers per class who certified there. The three heaviest classes averaged 677 certifications only.
Yet here at the heaviest weights are where the NFHS has added a weight while eliminating one from 125 through 140 where there was a much higher average number of wrestlers per class. Is this logical?
103: 873
112: 1011
119: 1273
125: 1363
130: 1194
135: 1203
140: 1118
145: 1030
152: 1228
160: 947
171: 902
189: 982
215: 625
285: 424
Disagreement With The NFHS
The NFHS press release states, “This change in weight classes resulted from a three to four year process utilizing data from the National Wrestling Coaches Association Optimal Performance Calculator. The rules committee was able to analyze data from almost 200,000 wrestlers across the country with the goal to create weight classes that have approximately 7 percent of the wrestlers in each weight class.
Throughout the process each state association was kept completely informed and provided multiple opportunities for input. The results of the last survey of each state association indicated that the majority of states favored a change, and the committee listened and acted accordingly.”
However, Council Rock South Pennsylvania head coach Brad Silimperi told me, “I have not spoken to one coach who had input nor one coach who thinks this is positive for our sport. EVERY SINGLE COACH I have spoken to thinks this is BAD BAD BAD. Our District Committee members never really voted and were told their vote wouldn’t matter as there was nothing they can do about it.”
Coach Dom Mancini who compiled the Ohio statistics tells me, “Now you can see why common sense never prevails! This is what everybody has been talking about, these are actual numbers of wrestlers in the state of Ohio - does this look like we need to add an upper weight based on participants?”
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Discussion Topic: Pennsylvania Propposes eliminatimg a weight class
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on May 5, 2020
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"
RE NFHS adopting, it can still be approved by PA. Theres one state i believe that defied the NFHS in 2011 and never followed the NFHS weight class changes."
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There might be others but one state that did not adopt the new weights is Michigan. My son coached up there for about 10 years, until this year, and it was always strange to hear him use the old weights.
Of course they do a lot of other odd stuff. Home school weigh ins before duals and one day tournaments, skin check lined up at mat side (which will get you a call for USC 5 minutes later when you drop your straps), allowing wrestling to continue after a clasping call even though there is no escape or reversal in progress.
You get the idea, they do it their way and the NFHS rules do not matter.
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