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Discussion Topic: A change is needed
Jason L. Jackson added to this discussion on March 6, 2021
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I'm not saying that Tom Ryan needs to go, but the staff needs shaken up and changes are needed. When your team is consistently bad from one position, you can't keep trying the same stuff and hoping it works.
Right now our only hope to have a competent bottom wrestler is to recruit a generational talent, and even then, it's not a guarantee (Tomasello).
If Tom Ryan is unwilling to make changes to try to improve his team, then that's a failure at the top. If the Ohio State football team put out a team that was good on offense but terrible on defense every year, the coach wouldn't survive, and there would have been multiple coaching changes.
Ohio State is falling behind. Mattin and Marinelli are Ohio guys who rode and got out. Hoffman is a PA guy who got rode. It's not all about Ohio high school wrestlers, it's failure to develop wrestlers in their worst positions once they get to Ohio State.
I think Tom Ryan is a very good coach, but if Ohio State comes back next year with the same staff, I will consider that an acknowledgement that he doesn't really want to get better, he's happy with the current position of Ohio State, which is a top 5 team that cannot challenge for a national title.
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Discussion Topic: A change is needed
Jack Muni added to this discussion on March 6, 2021
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I was watching Lucas Byrd give Desanto a tough match and wondered how did this Ohio kid slip under OSU radar?
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Discussion Topic: A change is needed
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 6, 2021
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Quote from Jack Muni's post:
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"I was watching Lucas Byrd give Desanto a tough match and wondered how did this Ohio kid slip under OSU radar?"
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Decatur was the higher ranked recruit.
Jason -- I don't agree with your last paragraph. Tom is always trying to get better but understand that at a top program, every aspect of what you are doing should always be under scrutiny - from within and by their fans.
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Last edited by Brady Hiatt on March 6, 2021; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: A change is needed
Jason L. Jackson added to this discussion on March 6, 2021
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So is that a recruiting miss or a coaching miss? I hate to say it, but if Romero went to PSU and Starocci went to Ohio State, that match result is reversed.
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Discussion Topic: A change is needed
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 6, 2021
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Jason: You're on the mark. Everyone should read Bob P's post about the lack of productivity they're getting out of several recent recruits. We are seeing a lot of mediocre wrestling from guys who are supposed to be big time prospects.
They also have missed on some Ohio guys who could have helped such as Bryce Andonian(I'm assuming he could have slid to 157) and Lucas Byrd.
Bucks are a 4 man team right now: Heinselman, Sasso, Smith and Romero. The only other starter I see as dynamic is D'Emilio. At least he scraps. It will help to get Kharchla back but you then need to bulk someone (Romero?) up to 184.
I'm concerned about the effectivenss of the current staff.
If Bucks end up with 4 AA's, I hope they don't allow it to cloud their judgement about the obvious weaknesses that need to be addressed.
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Discussion Topic: A change is needed
Jared Ball added to this discussion on March 6, 2021
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Byrd was an undersized kid from Lasalle and didn’t win it until his senior year. He might have been a two timer, but I can’t recall. I thought he had verbal’d to Maryland first prior to ending up at Illinois. The coaches have definitely done a great job developing him.
I must say that it’s hard to argue much with Jason’s sentiment. We are not used to this level of performance, and I would add to that a level of disinterest and a lack of urgency fr the team across the board. Right now the Bucks are sitting at five qualifiers. Our expectations have risen with the success of Coach Ryan and the program. Every other program was put in the same difficult situation with training this year, but I don’t think any of us would say that this Buckeye team has wrestled to its potential at any point this season, or perhaps this is who they are. The day started off poorly with Decatur, was followed up by a winless effort by Rocky, and capped off by a failure of the team to qualify what has to be its lowest total of auto qualifiers in a decade. I’m sure no one is more disappointed then the coaches, but I agree that we can’t continue to ignore the steady decline in development that has occurred since Lou Rosselli’s departure. The Bucks are getting blue chip talent, but what does it say to elite recruits when you see guys like Singletary, Hoffman, Rocky Jordan, Decatur, and others not make relative jumps in improvements? It’s good that we have these expectations. Perhaps we were too spoiled from 2012 on. There’s bound to be down years, as this clearly is, and as it’s been stated on here before...these guys are allowed to get better. Today was just not the Bucks day. With the EIWA being down I’m assuming guys like D’Emilio, Cleary, Rocky, and Hoffman have a decent chance of getting an at large bid, but I guess we’ll see.
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Discussion Topic: A change is needed
Christopher Henderson added to this discussion on March 7, 2021
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I hope the Buckeyes make some coaching changes soon, or some of their incoming recruits might jump ship to some schools that see improvements from their wrestlers. Shumate has time to change his mind. But then again, he might see an opportunity to start immediately with Singletary and Hoffman looking vulnerable. Same thing with their new Heavyweight recruit. The weight class should be wide open when he arrives.
As far as Decatur being a top prospect. He should be a cautionary tale for the Buckeyes going forward. All of his best wins were freestyle, then top/bottom wrestling could be a huge liability.
All that said, Ethan Smith showed some awesome scrambling ability today. I hope he takes it to Marinelli in the finals. Marinelli looked lifeless in the semi and could certainly be taken down a notch.
Sasso looked great today, too. He is so patient and never panics. He looks so determined to win each position even if it takes a while. A lot of fun to watch.
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Discussion Topic: A change is needed
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 7, 2021
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That is a good question Jason. Every ranker had Decatur higher — and if college was freestyle, you may see a different kid there — as Christipher pointed out, FS was his biggest wins.
Edit: these guys are some great young men and not intended to be a bash — we just want them to succeed — and I know they do also.
What Coach leaves? Jaggers? If I was a betting man, he was the main reason Sasso came and you can see his influence in their wrestling. Trevel? He is regarded as one of the best big man coaches in the nation. Tom? Who can you get to replace him that would do a better job?
We all see a need for change /improvement, but I don’t believe it’s the members of the staff.
Mindset? Perspective? Training methods? All the above?
Edit: every successful athlete / organization is always looking to improve. I know tOSU is doing so.
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Discussion Topic: A change is needed
Mark Cummings added to this discussion on March 7, 2021
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I’m only a fan, so I’ll preface my opinion with that. There is definite room for improvement for wrestling off the bottom. That has been a problem for the team for years. This year is a lot different though. The coaches didn’t have any direct interaction with the team for a long time due to covid. Coach Ryan said that in an interview around when wrestle offs happened. That seems like much of the off season training was left to the individual athletes. Some guys were clearly committed to improving. I’m not saying every athlete wasn’t committed to their training but some guys trained more effectively. I’d like to see guys wrestle their more natural weights instead of cutting so much. Last, this team is really young with no upper class men who have had a lot of success winning the B1G or NCAA. I think the lack of accomplished, athlete leadership like on recent teams is a big thing that is missing.
Regarding a coaching change, I’d be careful about what we might wish for. Wisconsin changed their staff and the new staff hasn’t brought as much success as the school probably has hoped for so far.
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Discussion Topic: A change is needed
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 7, 2021
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anyone seriously talking a Head coaching change needs their head examined. Ryan is The Man still, we owe him a lot, imo.
I can remember Ohio St both of the two years prior to Ryan finishing LAST in the Big Ten. YES THEY DID. That said i think we all see something is very wrong-- this year, the Covid year.... Bad luck too with loss of Karchla. Btw, whered Kinner go?
However all these top recruits could not have been that overrated from the nations #1 and #2 recruiting classes 2 & 3 years ago. Tom needs to do, and will do i am sure, a painstaking reassessment after the season of coaching, recruiting, attitudes, team leadership, preparation..
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Discussion Topic: A change is needed
Drew Taylor added to this discussion on March 7, 2021
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Christopher: Jordan Decatur in high school won Ironman and twice came away with a win in Flo's Who's Number One. He was not just a freestyler. Wrestlers with that level of folkstyle success generally excel once they get to college.
Gavin Hoffman similarly arrived to Ohio State with big folkstyle credentials, winning Flo Nationals and dominating Pennsylvania. Yesterday he wrestled 21 regulation minutes and scored three points.
This is a rough spot for OSU wrestling.
Losing Kerkvliet and Snyder to Penn State were huge blows, as was to a lesser extent Kharchla's knee injury and Kinner's apparent departure from the program. There were huge expectations for Echemendia yet he didn't even make the postseason lineup.
But before we start trying to fire the coaching staff, keep in mind that just last year the program very well could have had 2-3 NCAA finalists and finished with a trophy if not for Covid.
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Discussion Topic: A change is needed
Freddy Carr added to this discussion on March 7, 2021
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The program definitely seems to have regressed. Don’t see in the foreseeable future this team as a team title contender. There are a couple guys that could compete for individual titles, which is nice. But as mentioned so many of these recruits don’t seem to develop. No idea what the solution could be and Tom certainly deserves patience.
Agree with the point on Snyder’s exodus. That seems to be a pivotal moment in the program’s trajectory.
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Discussion Topic: A change is needed
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on March 7, 2021
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How would you approach training tOSU wrestlers to escape from the bottom so that they could be on par with what appears to be a relatively simple thing for wrestlers from other DI programs?
(I’d be interested in your perspective specifically, Rex.)
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Discussion Topic: A change is needed
Don Bork added to this discussion on March 7, 2021
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Going into the finals tonight the Buckeyes currently sit in ninth place. This program is going in the wrong direction at an alarming rate. Just as a comparison MSU is in fifth. Two teams on opposite trajectories. I remember Ryan speaking of 10 AA as the goal. We’re a long way from that.
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Discussion Topic: A change is needed
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on March 7, 2021
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I love the annual fire the coaches thread
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