|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Burroughs vs Marstellar
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 11, 2023
|
Three matches didn't give us a definitive answer as to who's better. My only observations are that Burroughs is still very good but no longer great. I'd also say that Marstellar is at the same level.
The call which determined match 3 is typically called for the offensive guy. At least that's how I see it based on how I've observed freestyle officiating over the last decade (it was different during the 90's). I was shocked they gave Marstellar the 4.
I'd love to hear others thoughts.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Burroughs vs Marstellar
Rex Holman added to this discussion on June 11, 2023
|
Tough one to call. Burroughs was the aggressor and backed Marstellar to the edge, but Marstellar stopped forward momentum. Then did a less than pretty front headlock throw which exposed Burroughs back, but in the process had to expose his own back.
I would have to consider the technical rule.
I believe over the years dependent upon the rules and who is wrestling it could be called: 3-2, 3-3, 2-3
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Burroughs vs Marstellar
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 11, 2023
|
Hate to be the "that's the trouble with freestyle" guy as I love the sport...but that's the problem. As an experienced fan and former wrestler, I should be able to watch that situation and know how it's going to be called. Instead, there is no way to know who's going to get how many points.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Burroughs vs Marstellar
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on June 11, 2023
|
|
Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
|
|
"Hate to be the "that's the trouble with freestyle" guy as I love the sport...but that's the problem. As an experienced fan and former wrestler, I should be able to watch that situation and know how it's going to be called. Instead, there is no way to know who's going to get how many points."
|
As an official, I agree 100%.
As I watched it, I "thought" Marsteller initiated the move but on replay, I wasn't so sure. IMO, it could have gone either way and I would not have much wiggle room.
That should never be the case.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Burroughs vs Marstellar
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on June 12, 2023
|
I’ll come back to give my thoughts on the match in question but wanted to stop in and comment that Reece Humphrey was cornering Chance in the match. Given that and Princeton’s rise over the past few years, me thinks Hump is a big piece out in Jersey.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Burroughs vs Marstellar
Jared Ball added to this discussion on June 12, 2023
|
He’s one of a very few domestic wrestlers to even get a win against JB. It took Dake multiple attempts over multiple years. I believe IMAR took a win too. While I’m halfway there on Hanks sentiment, I do want to point out that it’s not even been a calendar year since JB won a world title. Albeit at a non Olympic weight. Marsteller has had the advantage of preparing for one wrestler, and he has the frame and game plan to execute it. There was a great video in the tunnel as Jordan walked off the floor where he was talking to Coach Slay and others. You can hear him process through the difficulty of getting through Chance’s low center of gravity, and how far back his hips were. I’m not of a high confidence that Marsteller is at a medalist level yet for worlds. His game plan for Jordan is not highly transferable to everyone else.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Burroughs vs Marstellar
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on June 12, 2023
|
1st -- I agree with Jared.
2nd -- I thought it was JB's 4 without question. He had Marsteller in the air (slightly but both of CM's feet went off the ground) and when they landed is when CM's hit the throw that brought him directly to his back. There was no exposure until after the whistle was blown.
In a match with a Team Ohio girl, that same situation was explained to me with the exact opposite call in Fargo by one of the Final X officials. And it was consistently called for the wrestler in JB's position.
I'll use this call if it happens again in Fargo.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Burroughs vs Marstellar
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on June 12, 2023
|
I think Chance Marsteller is certainly at the level to be in the discussion for the world team.
Match 1: I don’t think the singlet pull was enough to warrant a loss, but the rule is the rule. (But so is a timely challenge, but I digress.) I DEFINITELY think 16 seconds should have been placed back on the clock.
Match 2: tough to say anything about this match as the loser of the first match had to wrestle a different - more aggressive - style. Had that been JB, then he would have been the aggressor.
Match 3: I do not think it was 4 for Marsteller. Terrible ending to a great set of matches. Anyone else see the singlet pull from JB in this match??
Last thing: JB is the epitome of class. On & off the mat, he oozes character, leadership, humility and a host of other positive qualities that we should all aspire to develop. With all of this in mind, does anyone know if he’s given a post-event interview??? And does anyone remember his 2016(?) interview; after he failed to place? If you can link that, I’d greatly appreciate it.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Burroughs vs Marstellar
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 12, 2023
|
Just listened to Ben Askren break down the scenario in match 3. Burroughs didn't have the legs. Marstellar hit sort of a half-ss elevator but it was his move. Video review backs it up.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Burroughs vs Marstellar
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on June 12, 2023
|
|
Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
|
|
"Just listened to Ben Askren break down the scenario in match 3. Burroughs didn't have the legs. Marstellar hit sort of a half-ss elevator but it was his move. Video review backs it up."
|
Brandon Paulson tweeted that is was “4 Jordan no question”
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Burroughs vs Marstellar
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on June 12, 2023
|
|
Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
|
|
"Just listened to Ben Askren break down the scenario in match 3. Burroughs didn't have the legs. Marstellar hit sort of a half-ss elevator but it was his move. Video review backs it up."
|
When you put it that way…
:-)
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Burroughs vs Marstellar
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on June 12, 2023
|
no question? if the 3 officials reviewed and reversed it how can there be "4 Jordan no question" ?
i have to admit all my years going to Fargo, loved the experience but not so much the rules. Had to suffer thru the chest clinch era, the leg clinch, the ball grab bag--- what else?
one reason why freestyle will never replace folkstyle in America, scoring often controversial sometimes even worse.
In the deciding third match, a key throw on the edge, which was originally scored for Burroughs, was awarded four points for Marsteller on the challenge review. Marsteller finished off an 8-3 victory.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Burroughs vs Marstellar
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 13, 2023
|
|
Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
|
|
"
|
Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
|
|
"Just listened to Ben Askren break down the scenario in match 3. Burroughs didn't have the legs. Marstellar hit sort of a half-ss elevator but it was his move. Video review backs it up."
|
Brandon Paulson tweeted that is was “4 Jordan no question”"
|
Jordan didn't even have his arms on the legs. His movement was stopped. And Chance then initiated. At a glance, I was sure it was four for Burroughs as well. But Jordan is driving him without actually having the legs. At least that's what I saw when they broke it down slowly and showed it. And I'm convinced that's what the refs saw. My personal preference was for Burroughs to win.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Burroughs vs Marstellar
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on June 13, 2023
|
I referenced Paulson because he is an Olympic silver medalist that is heavily into coaching the international styles and coaches every year in Fargo -- and he is convinced it was 4 Burroughs.
A LOT of subjectivity in the rules.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Burroughs vs Marstellar
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 13, 2023
|
"A LOT of subjectivity in the rules."
That should be a slogan.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
