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Discussion Topic: Iowa v. Iowa State on ESPN (11/26)
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on November 27, 2023
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Anyone watch this dual meet?
Thoughts?
I surmise that there are different categories to a response to this question.
1) The dual meet itself
2) Certain matches within the dual meet
3) Coaching decisions
4) ESPN production
5) Other
(#4) Iowa 18, (#8) Iowa State 14
125: #21 Drake Ayala (Iowa) dec. #10 Kysen Terukina (Iowa State), 7-2
133: #20 Evan Frost (Iowa State) dec. #8 Brody Teske (Iowa), 8-1
141: #1 Real Woods (Iowa) dec. #30 Anthony Echemendia (Iowa State), 4-1 SV
149: #13 Casey Swiderski (Iowa State) dec. #9 Victor Voinovich (Iowa), 6-3
157: #2 Jared Franek (Iowa) dec. Cody Chittum (Iowa State), 4-2
165: #2 David Carr (Iowa State) major dec. #5 Michael Caliendo (Iowa), 16-4
174: Patrick Kennedy (Iowa) dec. #29 MJ Gaitan (Iowa State), 14-13
184: Gabe Arnold (Iowa) dec. #6 Will Feldkamp (Iowa State), 3-2
197: #26 Zach Glazier (Iowa) dec. #24 Julien Broderson (Iowa State), 7-3
285: #6 Yonger Bastida (Iowa State) major dec. Bradley Hill (Iowa), 17-6
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Discussion Topic: Iowa v. Iowa State on ESPN (11/26)
Jack Muni added to this discussion on November 27, 2023
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I caught the 141 Echemendia/Woods match that went into OT. #1 Woods pulled it out. It amazed me that 5 out of 10 weight classes for Iowa are transfers, half the starters, unreal.
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Discussion Topic: Iowa v. Iowa State on ESPN (11/26)
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on November 27, 2023
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Be curious what others think who watched, but I think ISU should've won 141 & 157 with last second TD that weren't called.
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Discussion Topic: Iowa v. Iowa State on ESPN (11/26)
Casey Talbott added to this discussion on November 27, 2023
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Jim -
Yep, no doubt, both of those calls could have gone the other way, either may have swung the final tally.
Also, ISU's 174 (Gaitan) had Kennedy on the ropes. He got his final takedown with only 16 or so seconds to go, cutting the lead to one, 14-13. But Kennedy's gas tank was empty (guess he's bouncing back from injury), so I'd have loved to have seen Gaitan cut him.
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Discussion Topic: Iowa v. Iowa State on ESPN (11/26)
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on November 27, 2023
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Quote from Casey Talbott's post:
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"Jim -
Yep, no doubt, both of those calls could have gone the other way, either may have swung the final tally.
Also, ISU's 174 (Gaitan) had Kennedy on the ropes. He got his final takedown with only 16 or so seconds to go, cutting the lead to one, 14-13. But Kennedy's gas tank was empty (guess he's bouncing back from injury), so I'd have loved to have seen Gaitan cut him."
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He is coming back from injury and I think he was part of the group that was suspended.
I thought I saw on X that the ISU coaches thought Gaitan had riding time.
Not sure why ISU coaches didn't challenge either call.
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Discussion Topic: Iowa v. Iowa State on ESPN (11/26)
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on November 27, 2023
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Quote from Jim Kessen's post:
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"Be curious what others think who watched, but I think ISU should've won 141 & 157 with last second TD that weren't called."
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I did not see the 141 match so I have no opinion.
However at 157, IMO the TD was there BUT we don't know if there was time remaining. The issue I have is that the ass't official seemed be saying that the wrestlers were OOB's which did not appear to be the case. He had his back to the clock UNLESS there was a clock on the side he was looking at.
They did review it so I wonder what they saw that we could not see??
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Discussion Topic: Iowa v. Iowa State on ESPN (11/26)
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on November 27, 2023
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I thought the dual met was entertaining. It had all the right ingredients for a televised dual meet. It had history, top wrestlers facing off, new wrestlers entering the line-up, a hyped-up crowd, and it was on ESPN! What's not to like!?
Well...since you asked...I did not like the attempt to use multiple angles. I dislike it in football; it does not work in wrestling. The split shots were just as bad. And for goodness sakes if you cut to a camera make sure it is not wobbling!
Halftime - I don't like it. It kills any momentum that a solid event (like this dual meet) had. Halftime works in football and basketball. The same players are coming back out to play. However, for wrestling, the 125, 133 up to 157 are NOT wrestling again. No need for a halftime. Dumb.
IN A DUAL MEET - there is zero need for a post-match interview. Aside from the fact that QUINT KESSENICH SUCKS!, there is no need for the interview. We are moving on to the next match. Keep the momentum going. After the match, hold all the pressers you want. Until then, keep the action going.
I've heard the statement that "all sports are unique". Fine. Whatever. Probably true for the most part. Again, whatevs. Not my point. My point is that we need to capitalize on our uniqueness when given the limelight. Don't try to be something different or imitate something else. Just be you! Remember - what you win them with, you win them to. And I believe the merits of the sport are worth displaying and can stand on their own.
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Discussion Topic: Iowa v. Iowa State on ESPN (11/26)
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on November 27, 2023
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I am 100% in agreement with Mark.
I did not realize it was "halftime" and wondered why the long delay. That is a stupid idea for wrestling.
The interviews with Kessnich are just awful and embarrassing. The questions he asks are just insulting to the wrestler and to us. Non media trained athletes, in all sports, have just finished a hard competition and have no idea what to say. We do not need it.
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Discussion Topic: Iowa v. Iowa State on ESPN (11/26)
Jared Ball added to this discussion on November 27, 2023
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From a wrestling standpoint I thought the dual was fantastic. My wife was into it. It had lots of drama with many of the matches coming down to pivotol moments. Iowa State has a lot of young exciting talent. The future looks bright, and Dresser continues to cement his legacy as one of the ultimate program builders in the last quarter century.
Iowa is just different. Even depleated as they are they are still one of the toughtest outs in the country. Very seldom when an opponent toes the line do they not get an absolute war. When things get tight they typically have enough discipline, conditioning, and mental toughness to outlast their oponent. It is uncommon.
As far as TV is concerned. What sport really needs halftime? Non of them. Thats a TV gimic for commercials and to help fill time. To my knowledge, I think thats a Big Ten Network creation. I never remember seeing or hearing that prior to the establishment of BTN. If we must do that then I think they need to ensure they have some better human interest stories associated with wrestling. Wrestling is a niche sport. If you're going to do something about wrestling making it engaging for the die hards. Tell us something we don't know. How many times did we have to hear about Marinelli and his wife in recent years? That was an appeal to the average watcher, not the wrestling enthusiast. The post match interviews are always horrible no matter who does them. Why shove a microphone in a guys face while he is hyperventalating following one of the most arduous physical training excercises possible? Space them out more and talk to the guys well after the fact. The real money is in the coaches interviews. I could sit and listen to Brands all day. Its always entertaining.
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Discussion Topic: Iowa v. Iowa State on ESPN (11/26)
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on November 27, 2023
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Very interesting stat:
Takedowns:
Iowa 15
ISU 11
Stalling:
Iowa 12
ISU 0
To quote Ron Burgundy: That doesn't make sense.
A couple factors. Iowa was up early in a lot of matches and shut it down late. Watching that is like watching a football team running the ball over and over with a lead and punting. Why don't wrestlers (and coaches) stay on offense? I don't get it.
Woods was hit with stalling standing in the middle of the mat. Didn't make sense to me. Don't over officiate. The truth is, neither he or Echemendia were making meaningful attempts to score. Why penalize one because of the score and assumed stalling?
I will admit to being an Iowa fan, understanding it's unpopular. They're fun to watch and even the antics make it more exciting. It occurred to me during the dual when looking at ISU's corner that basically their whole staff wrestled in black and gold; Dresser, Mecalf, and St. John. I find this odd. Why not bring back a Cyclone to pitch in?
Finally, seems each year there is talk of momentum with ISU and Dresser doing a great job... and Iowa still wins.
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Discussion Topic: Iowa v. Iowa State on ESPN (11/26)
J.P. Barner added to this discussion on November 28, 2023
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The Brands are annoyingly good.
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Discussion Topic: Iowa v. Iowa State on ESPN (11/26)
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on November 28, 2023
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Jared: I am unsure if other sports need a halftime or not but I know FOR A FACT college wrestling duals do NOT! And you could be correct about the "sway" or "power" of BTN, ad revenues, and college duals.
All: In fairness to ISU, they were ranked below when this dual meet happened. It would make sense to me that Iowa would win. The fact that they were close - and some would say actually had it to win - certainly shows me that they are close.
I think of all the matches, the biggest let-down for ISU/boost for Iowa was 184. Feldkamp was clearly the larger wrestler in that match. However, whatever his limitations were/are, they were exposed by the young upstart in Arnold. Call it poor match planning for ISU/Felkamp or call it straight living in the moment for Arnold but that was the match (IMO) that either changed everything or exposed the two teams for what they are.
ps: David Carr is a HAMMER! An absolute joy to watch wrestle. Good golly Ms. Molly hes awesome.
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Discussion Topic: Iowa v. Iowa State on ESPN (11/26)
Rex Holman added to this discussion on November 28, 2023
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One of the coaches in the corner needs to be unemotional with a mindset of questioning calls, knowing the score, knowing every rule and making sure the clerical stuff is accounted for. Takes a ton of work and way harder than what coaches do now.
Few do it.
Everyone goes into coaching default mode of following the action and maybe cheering on the wrestler with the occasional fist pump and calling for two or stalling. No value to your wrestler there. Value when you win a match for him because the referee or scorekeepers made a mistake.
Casey Cunningham is the best corner man I've seen.
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Discussion Topic: Iowa v. Iowa State on ESPN (11/26)
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on November 28, 2023
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"One of the coaches in the corner needs to be unemotional with a mindset of questioning calls, knowing the score, knowing every rule and making sure the clerical stuff is accounted for. Takes a ton of work and way harder than what coaches do now.
Few do it.
Everyone goes into coaching default mode of following the action and maybe cheering on the wrestler with the occasional fist pump and calling for two or stalling. No value to your wrestler there. Value when you win a match for him because the referee or scorekeepers made a mistake.
Casey Cunningham is the best corner man I've seen."
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Jamie Milkovich at Maple Heights was incredible in that regard. Knew the rules better than the officials and always made a valid point.
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Discussion Topic: Iowa v. Iowa State on ESPN (11/26)
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on November 28, 2023
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"
Jamie Milkovich at Maple Heights was incredible in that regard. Knew the rules better than the officials and always made a valid point."
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Jamie is a great, great coach and knows wrestling inside out. Few if any better.
However, I would disagree that he knows rules better than the officials. Some of them? Certainly. However I can name dozens off the top of my head who are better with the rules. What I would say is that he was very good at getting inside their heads as well as anyone I have seen.
Heck, I can recall him baiting me for a call at a tournament in far west Lorain County.
What he didn't know is that I wasn't smart enough to realize what he was trying to do!
All that said, I truly do respect him and what he has done for so many years.
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