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Discussion Topic: Develop the talent you have
Rex Holman added to this discussion on February 3, 2025
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With all the talk about blue chips; I think most colleges do an underwhelming job of developing talent and rely on guys that come to the game, closer to a finished product.
I have a hard time seeing wrestlers show marginal improvement or regressing.
I think it is possible to take a guy like Geog and produce a NCAA champion out of him. I think it takes daily assessments and feedback; value adds in terms of offensive and defensive attacks. It is a ton of work and takes someone that is as passionate about your development as the wrestler is passionate about improving.
There are a lot of great athletes who wrestle that can adapt the techniques in short order. However, there are few guys that can do so under conventional terms of college practice.
The existing structure of most practices sucks and doesn't lead a wrestler to anywhere near the best version of themselves let alone prepare them to beat high level wrestlers.
The question at the end of the day is what did you do to make your wrestler improve? and I can tell you that most of it is malarkey.
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Discussion Topic: Develop the talent you have
Doug Gainous added to this discussion on February 3, 2025
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Why aren't you coaching again?
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Discussion Topic: Develop the talent you have
Dan Strope added to this discussion on February 3, 2025
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There could be a strong argument that this is also happening on the high school level.
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Discussion Topic: Develop the talent you have
Drew Taylor added to this discussion on February 3, 2025
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During its heyday, Central Michigan under Tom Borrelli prioritized developing the weakest wrestlers in the room. The philosophy was that these guys would get better and cause the team’s top guys to improve. It worked. CMU dominated the MAC for a while, and constantly turned midtier recruits into All-Americans.
Borrelli also had a great assistant helping him: Casey Cunningham.
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Discussion Topic: Develop the talent you have
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 4, 2025
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Northern Iowa does a great job taking lesser big name recruits and turning them into AA candidates.
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Discussion Topic: Develop the talent you have
Brian Mathews added to this discussion on February 4, 2025
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"There are a lot of great athletes who wrestle that can adapt the techniques in short order. However, there are few guys that can do so under conventional terms of college practice."
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I think that's right. The "get that guy in the room" philosophy might work on 1/20 recruits. With the number of factors in play it's extremely difficult to identify who those guys are.
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"I think it is possible to take a guy like Geog and produce a NCAA champion out of him. "
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You would know better than me, but I think I have to disagree there. The most important traits to create an NCAA champion aren't physical, IMO.
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Discussion Topic: Develop the talent you have
Jeff Streu added to this discussion on February 4, 2025
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"With all the talk about blue chips; I think most colleges do an underwhelming job of developing talent and rely on guys that come to the game, closer to a finished product.
I have a hard time seeing wrestlers show marginal improvement or regressing.
I think it is possible to take a guy like Geog and produce a NCAA champion out of him. I think it takes daily assessments and feedback; value adds in terms of offensive and defensive attacks. It is a ton of work and takes someone that is as passionate about your development as the wrestler is passionate about improving.
There are a lot of great athletes who wrestle that can adapt the techniques in short order. However, there are few guys that can do so under conventional terms of college practice.
The existing structure of most practices sucks and doesn't lead a wrestler to anywhere near the best version of themselves let alone prepare them to beat high level wrestlers.
The question at the end of the day is what did you do to make your wrestler improve? and I can tell you that most of it is malarkey."
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I'm sure you're correct, but since most of us trained in "conventional" rooms, most of us end up coaching in conventional, American ways, for right or for wrong, because we're familiar/comfortable with it, or because we saw some degree of success with it. In many cases said success may have been in spite of, not because of, said conventional methods.
I have an inkling, but if possible, can you please provide an example(s) of what you would consider "conventional" college practice methods vs. value-added practice methods?
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Discussion Topic: Develop the talent you have
Rex Holman added to this discussion on February 4, 2025
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I consider myself an adjunct coach at this point in life. I can add value to someone’s game but I’m not going to be involved in the day-to-day practices.
I help a handful of wrestlers. I enjoy watching videos and working with advanced wrestlers that can understand what is being taught and appreciate it. My friend, Chris Andrews pulled me back in three seasons ago. It has been a lot of fun, rewarding and made life a lot better. When I work with athletic and advanced wrestlers, it energizes me. When I work with wrestlers not as far along the developmental curve, it drains me.
As to why I think a wrestler could elevate his game from where he was on the developmental curve in high school to NCAA champion quality is about the process of moving him to that place on the curve. My personal experience gives me insight on this. I learned in hindsight that becoming complete enough is the key in winning any championship or match for that matter. With diligent and guided effort, a very good wrestler can become excellent.
When I see a guy lose a position, it is a matter of not doing the right thing at the right time. This happens due to a lack of preparation. In high level matches, winning and losing are typically the result of one pivotal sequence. You can actually point at the video and say that is where the match was won or lost. When you do that, you identify what caused the loss of position. You address it and work on it until it is no longer a problem.
OSU has two very good 197 lb wrestlers, Luke Geog and Seth Shumate. Geog has a solid head outside single (high c) attack. From memory, their wrestle off was even until later in the match Geog used a head tap which momentarily caused Shumate to reach and Geog capitalized. That is a totally correctable mistake by Shumate. It’s non negotiable that your hands are always in position. If you reach, you are wrong. It’s that type of attitude and action that must be taught and drilled into a wrestler so that simple oversight mistakes don’t happen. In the quarters my freshman year at ASU, I reached and lost 3-2 to Joe Stafford of Oklahoma in the NCAAs. When you have experienced the mistake firsthand, it leaves a mark on your soul that you don’t forget and always recognize when it happens to others.
Do coaches effectively address such a weakness in someone's game and go to great lengths to correct? There is always going to be some component of my practices that emphasizes and reinforces the importance of hand position in the form of drills and drawing attention to it. And if I care about you, I am going to yell at you if your hands come out of position. I’m going to let you know that it hurts me to see you compete below your capacity.
The most important aspect that a wrestler has coming out of high school is aptitude and adaptability in terms of what they could do. But the existing structure is aimed at wrestlers who are mostly complete, so the existing structure is heavily weighted on conditioning and wrestling live. This format is a slow evolution and the long track to improvement and typically accompanied by a spotty non methodical approach to addressing problems.
You need to reinforce quality technique and build up capacity to perform. Play drilling and live short goes from planned position or situations can make a wrestler more complete in the most efficient manner.
The other dynamic that is important about play wrestling is working through set up progressions and getting your wrestler moving their hands and feet in the most efficient way possible. Gone are the days of Iowa grabbing a collar tie and pushing you all over the mat. Head slips and elbow passes made that obsolete. Penn State is leading the charge on movement, set ups and actually scoring takedowns. If you start drilling a guy like Geog on multiple attacks, it’s going to take effect in a couple years and his attacks will be varied and he will no longer be predictable. He’ll like the sport exponentially more because he can do more and he won’t feel like a drone reliant on his opponent to reach and hit the same high c.
JMHO.
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Discussion Topic: Develop the talent you have
Rex Holman added to this discussion on February 5, 2025
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Improving your spot on the curve.
People dislike brutal honesty (it often conflicts with their view of the world), like shiny things and adhere rigidly to dogma.
These are things I know about human nature.
Addressing brutal honesty;
If I were to make a grade card for a wrestler it would resemble what our Gen X took home in elementary school. It would be done for each big match and on a quarterly basis. It would give a grade in the fundamentals and provide insight on what needs attention. The grade card would address 1) Baseline offense: tie ups, movement and attacks on your feet, 2) Baseline defense: hand position, downblocking, crossblocking and counters 3) Top position: riding, turns and mat returns 4) Bottom position: escapes, and reversals 5) Special situations. I could make this more comprehensive, but you get the idea.
You would get a grade on how skilled you were. You would get goals of skills to attain. The goals would be right in front of you and YOU WOULD KNOW THE ASSIGNMENT.
One wrestler gets A’s on the OSU team across the board, Jesse Mendez. The other guys are deficient in some things. They need to check more boxes and improve their overall games in objective terms as described above.
For example, If your feedback as a coach is that you need to get grittier, you’re intellectually lazy in my opinion. The objective feedback should point directly at the action or inaction taken that caused a loss of position. Grit? No. Lack of preparedness and discipline? Yes.
When coaches say something like grit, it is punitive and a value judgment (subjective). It has been my experience that most everyone puts forth a colossal effort and did the best they could based on their preparation. I’ve had coaches at the highest level with Olympic level accolades giving intellectually lazy advice. It didn't sit well with me then and even less so now. Be brutally honest, i.e. your hands were undisciplined and you reached when you were fatigued.
There is no amount of head tap on this planet in which it is allowable for you to reach and come out of position. You are to be a disciple of excellent position and quality skill. You are a work in progress and we make strides toward that goal every damn day.
Addressing people like shiny things;
Recently Japan has made goodwill visits to college wrestling rooms. They are outstanding in culture and results as a wrestling nation. However, the chances of one week of cultural exchange affecting performance positively is like throwing a velcro ball on a wall and seeing what sticks (crapshoot). Or in the worst case scenario, your best wrestler (Crookham) breaks his arm and is out for the season. You have to apply the right methodology to your wrestler. How about instead you let Nick Feldman handpick a guy that he wants to train with for a month and have that guy come into the room and work with him with the express goal of getting him ready for Big Tens and NCAAs.
Addressing adhering to dogma.
I’m writing this in hopes of reasoning with some of you based on logic and an understanding of how things work. Some will dismiss and say that’s not how or what I was taught.
We’re good.
I’ll finish with a passage out of a book I just read, The Parasitic Mind. “Many of the doctoral students or junior faculty were open to my ideas, while older established professors were much more resistant. This makes perfect sense in that the latter are entrenched in paradigms that define their professional work (identities).”
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Discussion Topic: Develop the talent you have
Jeff Streu added to this discussion on February 6, 2025
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Thank you for the detailed response Rex.
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Discussion Topic: Develop the talent you have
Jeff Mowrer added to this discussion on February 6, 2025
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Great post Rex and agree. There's a lot of talent in that room and for the majority their growth curve is too flat. Not sure this staff is up to the task of creating the environment you outlined or the PSU approach that has been so successful. The OSU message is still more "grit" needed.
Until a shift in methodology occurs the program will underperform and recruiting will struggle.
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Discussion Topic: Develop the talent you have
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on February 6, 2025
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How would you train McCrone as it relates to takedowns, Rex?
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