|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Are NCAA division 1 referees performance scored using statistics?
Bruce Andrews added to this discussion on February 24, 2026
|
This may not be known generally but it is something I have been curious about. By statistics, I mean like the following:
1. the ratio of stalling calls against the home team versus stalling calls against the visiting team. I wouldn't be surprised if referees call the visiting team more for stalling than the home team, but if this ratio was particularly lopsided for a particular referee (implying that they are too strongly influenced by the crowd), then perhaps that referee would get a low performance grade.
2. A referee has a large number of challenges using the brick, much more so than most other referees. Coaches like to challenge close calls but if a referee is challenged a lot more than other referees perhaps that would be reflected in a poor performance grade.
3. A referee virtually never overturns his own call. I know that most referees don't overturn there calls even after doing the video reviews, but would a referee get a poor performance grade if he never or almost never overturned his call on the mat?
4. When all stalling calls are for backing out of the circle and never for pushing the opponent out of the circle. I have observed a number of matches where the wrestler is trying everything he can to circle back in but his oppenent basically bullies him off the mat and the wrestler is called for stalling and not the guy who pushed him off. If a referee never calls a wrestler for pushing, perhaps that should affect their performance grade.
Perhaps there are other suggestions for how statistical methods could be used for grading referee's performance.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Are NCAA division 1 referees performance scored using statistics?
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on February 24, 2026
|
Several thoughts that are all mine. Be aware that I am not against the idea but it isn't as easy as one might think.
|
Quote from Bruce Andrews's post:
|
|
"
1. the ratio of stalling calls against the home team versus stalling calls against the visiting team. I wouldn't be surprised if referees call the visiting team more for stalling than the home team, but if this ratio was particularly lopsided for a particular referee (implying that they are too strongly influenced by the crowd), then perhaps that referee would get a low performance grade.
Several potential issues with this idea.
First, was stalling actually occurring? Was it by the home or visiting team? What if ALL of the stalling was by the visiting team? In whose opinion? Trying to make stalling calls "balanced", to satisfy some metric judgement, would be a terrible idea.
You have to remember that fans have a built in bias. Nothing wrong with that at all but it should not be confused with the reality of what actually happens.
2. A referee has a large number of challenges using the brick, much more so than most other referees. Coaches like to challenge close calls but if a referee is challenged a lot more than other referees perhaps that would be reflected in a poor performance grade.
Coaches use the brick instead of (like in the days of old) going to the table to challenge a call. If nothing changes, that results in a CMC call. It doesn't mean the call was right or wrong but it was close enough that the coach thought it merited a second look.
3. A referee virtually never overturns his own call. I know that most referees don't overturn there calls even after doing the video reviews, but would a referee get a poor performance grade if he never or almost never overturned his call on the mat?
Well, maybe that is because the call was right in the first place? Should he be punished for a review when the call was correct?
BTW, how do you know that "most referees don't overturn there calls even after doing the video reviews"? I have never seen any stats to support or refute that.
4. When all stalling calls are for backing out of the circle and never for pushing the opponent out of the circle. I have observed a number of matches where the wrestler is trying everything he can to circle back in but his oppenent basically bullies him off the mat and the wrestler is called for stalling and not the guy who pushed him off. If a referee never calls a wrestler for pushing, perhaps that should affect their performance grade.
This is a really tricky call. As a fan, it is ALWAYS the other guy. When you actually have to make the call, it is not as easy as it is when I am sitting in the stands.
FYI, what I look at is the "defensive" man's feet. If he is up on his toes, he is trying to stay in and the call goes on the man doing the pushing. If he is back on his heels, he is not trying to stay in.
Perhaps there are other suggestions for how statistical methods could be used for grading referee's performance."
|
Hopefully this gives a little input into what I/we think about when we are on the mat. Not a single one of us is ever going to get it right 100% of the time. However that is the goal, believe it or not.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Are NCAA division 1 referees performance scored using statistics?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 24, 2026
|
Jim and Bruce--great topic. Whether I agree or disagree with Jim's comments, we are exceedingly lucky to have someone with his level of experience and candor answer our questions. Between Jim and Rex, we get a lot of insight. I'm grateful.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Are NCAA division 1 referees performance scored using statistics?
Roe Fox added to this discussion on February 25, 2026
|
#1 is the most frustrating to me. It would seem easier to call than it’s made out to be. Who is actually working to improve, score, advance and who is tying up and doing nothing? Easier still, the backtracker. A ref is in the best position to gauge all of that.
Then there is the PSU sit on the leg and act busy.
Then the push out rule has confused me because I thought intentionally shoving someone out of bounds was also stalling. Apparently, it’s a way to earn stalling calls and points, even if the effort is being made to stay in. Circling to stay in bounds does not mean your wrestling. I have seen many wrestlers do nothing backing up then just as they go out and circle in, get a new “shot clock,” so to speak.
Half shots aren’t shots. Commit to a move and your wrestling.
Wrestling from your knees in neutral and not moving forward in some way. . .yuck.
There is little question to me that home cookin’ does influence calls. Carver Hawkeye is the best example historically. Lately it gas been quieter since their team isn’t the offensive juggernaut it once was.
I go back every so often to watch 80s-90s Ohio State tournaments and there is never much stalling there.
Now get off my lawn…
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Are NCAA division 1 referees performance scored using statistics?
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on February 25, 2026
|
I don't want to get into the idea that I need to defend officials and NCAA officials in particular. That said, here are a few thoughts of mine.
Regarding stalling, it seems to me as though the NCAA officials need to have something to point to as the reason they made a call. Drop down or side headlock and you get a count of 5 started. If/when they reach 5, a stalling call is made. Easy to understand but wrestlers are pretty smart and they consistently game the rule especially near the boundary. Wait until 4, lift your foot and you are OOB's. To me, stalling is more of a "feel". The old adage was if you think it is stalling, it is stalling.
The one I had trouble understanding was a stalling call in the middle of the mat when the 'defensive" man sprawls to avoid a TD. The official rings him up for doing what he has to do. It made/makes no sense to me. What I found out was that many of the NCAA official counts shots! 3 shots to 0 and you are going to draw the call. I now understand what they are doing but I still do not agree with it.
This is my opinion but riding time = stalling. The NCAA has changed a lot of rules to allow for more scoring and yet they hang on to riding time. Why??
Pushing/backing toward the boundary, I try to look at WHY we are at the boundary again? I do not want to penalize the wrong guy but once I determine who caused the action to go that direction, someone is getting called.
I really don't see very much wrestling from the knees so I don't have much of a thought about it.
Regarding "home cooking", I have been on a mat in front of 17-18K people but they were not all watching my mat and they were not rabid Iowa or Okie State fans. I can not imagine what that must feel like. I will say that a number of years ago I did a dual between Iowa and Buffalo. Tom Brands had NO idea who I am and he came over to shake hands. What he said was "Hi, I'm Tom Brands". I remember thinking that with those eyes, everyone in wrestling knows exactly who you are. His eyes are very scary in person.
With that, off to do some important stuff.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Are NCAA division 1 referees performance scored using statistics?
Jeff Streu added to this discussion on February 25, 2026
|
Just my 2 cents on each of these:
1. I think that a large pool of data would even things out and give a good picture of calls against home or calls against away.
2. A simple metric of number of challenges should give an indication of how many questionable calls and official makes. Regardless of how many are overturned or not, if an official gets challenged significantly more often than another official, there's a possibility they are getting some calls wrong. Again, a larger pool of data would help.
3. I agree with Jim that number of overturned challenges would be a messy metric.
4. I once had a college official tell me that they are looking for "at least 3 hours of fight" from the wrestler whose back is facing the out of bounds. Picturing the hours on a clock, he wants to see 90 degrees of circling to try to get back in. If they circle that much and the other wrestler still is simply blocking them from coming back into the circle, then that is stalling on the guy pushing if they go out of bounds. May not be the same rule of thumb for all college officials, but hopefully this clarifies a little bit.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Are NCAA division 1 referees performance scored using statistics?
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on February 25, 2026
|
|
Quote from Jim Behrens's post:
|
|
"Regarding "home cooking", I have been on a mat in front of 17-18K people but they were not all watching my mat and they were not rabid Iowa or Okie State fans. I can not imagine what that must feel like. I will say that a number of years ago I did a dual between Iowa and Buffalo. Tom Brands had NO idea who I am and he came over to shake hands. What he said was "Hi, I'm Tom Brands". I remember thinking that with those eyes, everyone in wrestling knows exactly who you are. His eyes are very scary in person."
|
Like Wendy Peffercorn, he knew EXACTLY what he was doing!
...and if you don't get that reference, I'm not sure we can be friends. LOL
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Are NCAA division 1 referees performance scored using statistics?
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on February 25, 2026
|
|
Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
|
|
"
Like Wendy Peffercorn, he knew EXACTLY what he was doing!
...and if you don't get that reference, I'm not sure we can be friends. LOL"
|
I hope you will reconsider but I have no idea about the reference. I am not much of a movie watcher but I looked up the name and I see that some actress played this role.
I still have no idea what it means but I imagine I could make an educated guess.
The other things I remember was how tall Matt McDonaugh was for a 125 and how I threw my shoulder out of joint raising Bobby Telford's hand. He was BIG!!
BTW, Iowa smoked Buffalo so I wasn't in his crosshairs too much.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Are NCAA division 1 referees performance scored using statistics?
Casey Talbott added to this discussion on February 25, 2026
|
Jim (just so you and Brady can be friends again) -
From the movie The Sandlot (an all-time classic):
Benny Rodriguez: [watching Wendy Peffercorn on the lifeguard chair putting on suntan lotion] Oh, man!
Yeah Yeah: Yeah, yeah. Too cruel.
Timmy: She don't know what she's doin'.
Tommy: She don't know what she's doin'.
Benny Rodriguez: Yeah, she does. She knows exactly what she's doin'.
Squints: I've swum here every summer in my adult life. And every summer, there she is. Lotion. Oilin'. Oilin'! Lotion. Smiling. Smiling! I can't take this no more! Move!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFHyCnCaq6g
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Are NCAA division 1 referees performance scored using statistics?
Roe Fox added to this discussion on February 25, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
